Finally, someone who can actually debate. Let us begin then. :) "Crucible 101: damage. Waves of fire does nothing, the enemy just waits until it stops. Arcbolt can tear down an entire team" Crucible 101: Tactics. Waves of fire totally do something. Using a wave of fire on a control point or other heavily defended areas is sure to cause some chaos. Sure the enemy can just wait it out, but while they are waiting it out is the perfect time for you to make your next move as well. Such as taking advantage of said chaos to get a flank? Or rather using it to stagger an enemy into the open for a quick drop with a sniper. The possibilities will continue. You have to think outside of the box to win. Always be one step ahead of your opponent, know what he's going to do, before he knows what he's going to do. "When a Titan is in melee range it's already dead from either the opponents ranged melee, or a shotgun, or a fusion rifle, or pretty much everything that doesn't need to be put inside the throat in order to do damage. Also, both Strikers and Defenders melee sucks. Plain and simple." The only way a titan melee sucks, is if the person playing the titan sucks. Other than that, titan melees are incredibly useful. Ranging from dealing extra damage to providing a shield to dealing AoE damage to quickly burn the opponent alive. Sure, there aren't many instances where a titan should have to use his melee, but if people are stupid enough to get close to another person using a titan or a shotgun, they deserve to die a humiliating death. "Unless you're one hand short and thus unable to aim; sure, Titan's jump is great. For those of us born with two hands and the ability to aim, a slow gliding jump is a free kill." Well that insult was completely unnecessary and inaccurate. Titan jumps are slow unless you choose the right one. Increased control works wonders with getting around a map quickly and you don't have to be a stationary target. Plus Any titan jump with agility Increased to about a third wont suffer this problem. "I suppose you're imagining this thread is about PvE since you obviously seem to think that holding a point is a good thing and being mobile is not." No... pretty sure the points I made were about pvp. And I think that holding a point AND being mobile is a good thing. But different situations would benefit from one more than the other. Holding a point is a great thing in game modes like control, salvage, and, well that new point control mode. Holding a point is a very good strategy in those game modes since that's the point of those game modes. But game modes like clash would probably benefit from a more mobile set up. "Sunbreakers aren't supported by any abilities outside their super" I'm sorry but this is simply not true. See: All grenades All melee abilities -Fleet fire: while would more quickly benefit from using a super, does not require a super to take advantage of. -Simmering flame: using your super is actually the worst thing you can do to capitalize on this perk. -Cauterize: once again, doesn't require a super to benefit from. -Firekeeper: doesn't require a super to activate or benefit from. although being in super mode gains an additional benefit that would be very beneficial in a game mode like control. "(like Bladedancers can have Quick Draw, Gunslingers can stack reload speed and stability, how Defenders can great orbs from Heavy weapon kills, how Strikers can get shoulder charge, how Voidwalkers can extend the effect of their grenades or get super energy from melee hits or get health regen from melee hits, how Sunsingers can get an overshield from melee hits, etc etc etc)." Once again: not true. Sunbreaker can: - instant health regen w/o super -Significantly drop an opponents armor w/o super -Deal AoE damage w/o super -Deal DoT w/o super -Gain an over shield w/o super -Gain significant cooldown w/o using a super -Momentarily increase stats w/o super -Gain instant melee cooldown w/o super. "Everything a Sunbreaker has is tied to it's super." See above for why this is nothing short of a lie. Many abilities the sunbreaker has IS tied to its super that is true and I'm not denying it, but is using your super necessary to benefit from a majority of sunbreaker abilities? Not at all. The sunbreaker does not require the super to be an EXTREMELY beneficial subclass to those who play as a sunbreaker and to those whose allies play as a sunbreaker. Give the subclass a little more time for people to start playing around with set-ups and making more creative builds and I'm sure you will see that sunbreakers have much more going for them than just their super. And, ontop of all of these awsome perks and abilities:[spoiler]it has one of the best supers in the game :)[/spoiler] Source on all of this?: [spoiler]I main a titan, and am damn good with it. I know what I'm talking about. [/spoiler]