[quote]well mostly cause in all the time we've been studying it, the universe doesnt show the quality of self creation. we know that god is the only cause of creation even if we choose to describe gods actions through quantum mechanical equations. it is through his act of creation that we see his power, intelligence and love for living creatures even though we turn away from him and hurt each other and tarnish this paradise we were blessed with.[/quote] Hawking radiation. Creation of energy from nothing. Quantum uncertainty, electron superposition/reappearance. Gods mechanics are mystical, not scientific. Apologetics-like argument. Special pleading logical fallacy. Biblical misrepresentation. We hurt each other because we have predators and scarcity. This is only nature and competition in action

ya, thats why there is violence in america, not enough to go around, lol. cute list, but you just listed a bunch of things that are happening because the universe already exists, they are a part of it. might as well say black holes or planet X. and god may be mystical to us but hes normal to himself. an ipad would be mystical to people in the past, even if you opened it up and told them how it worked it would still be magic. thats just how our silly little minds work. everything not understood is magical until it is understood. im not saying we can fully understand god or the mechanism of creation but if we do, it doesnt mean that it becomes any more or less 'magical' than before.

[quote]ya, thats why there is violence in america, not enough to go around, lol. cute list, but you just listed a bunch of things that are happening because the universe already exists, they are a part of it. might as well say black holes or planet X. and god may be mystical to us but hes normal to himself. an ipad would be mystical to people in the past, even if you opened it up and told them how it worked it would still be magic. thats just how our silly little minds work. everything not understood is magical until it is understood. im not saying we can fully understand god or the mechanism of creation but if we do, it doesnt mean that it becomes any more or less 'magical' than before.[/quote] Scarcity is precisely the reason why anything ever developed hostile instincts. Why we grew claws and hatred and violence. Because we want something that's limited and we want it for ourselves. That's the reason why there's violence en général. No. I don't mean mystical, I mean actual magic. Assuming the universe was created by magic

scarcity, developed? its called the ecosystem. a self contained balance of life that utilizes natural resources, they arent being hostile, are plants hostile for absorbing sunlight? are cows hostile for eating the plants? are we hostile for eating cows? is bacteria hostile for eating us? its funny how people only view one of these exchanges of energy as hostile. its cause we are humans who were created with a conscience mind that knows the difference between right and wrong and the ability to make our decisions even if we choose to do the wrong thing. because (obviously) we have a loving god who wants us to know what the right thing is even if he doesnt make us do it. and thats really funny about the universe being created by magic. why dont you talk to some cosmologists. they have no problem admitting that whatever was happening at the beginning of the universe, it has nothing to do with what we understand as reality. our concepts of math, time, speed, or space deteriorate as you look back to the singularity (not to mention whatever was 'before') at least what we call magic operates within our understanding of reality so ya, looking back its obviously not a magical event but something much more profound! its never too late accept the truth

[quote]scarcity, developed? its called the ecosystem. a self contained balance of life that utilizes natural resources, they arent being hostile, are plants hostile for absorbing sunlight? are cows hostile for eating the plants? are we hostile for eating cows? is bacteria hostile for eating us? its funny how people only view one of these exchanges of energy as hostile. its cause we are humans who were created with a conscience mind that knows the difference between right and wrong and the ability to make our decisions even if we choose to do the wrong thing. because (obviously) we have a loving god who wants us to know what the right thing is even if he doesnt make us do it. and thats really funny about the universe being created by magic. why dont you talk to some cosmologists. they have no problem admitting that whatever was happening at the beginning of the universe, it has nothing to do with what we understand as reality. our concepts of math, time, speed, or space deteriorate as you look back to the singularity (not to mention whatever was 'before') at least what we call magic operates within our understanding of reality so ya, looking back its obviously not a magical event but something much more profound! its never too late accept the truth[/quote] Apparently you think hostile means evil. No, I mean hostile as in predatory/consuming instincts. This includes taking the life of other things. Yes, cows are the hostile entities when they eat the grass to the grass, just as wolves are to the cows when they eat the cows and when cannibals hunt and consume other people. Plants are not hostile towards the sun for absorbing sunlight though due to that being an inanimate and bound-to-happen thing. Simple stuff, really... Right and wrong don't matter in nature. Only survival. Humans created concepts of right and wrong in order to maintain social unity in our tribes per an evolutionary process that developed us to become social beings in order to increase our rates of survival. Don't jump to conclusions without proof, it isn't logical. If you knew anything about magic (you [i]obviously[/i] don't), then you would comprehend that magic is the channeling of either spiritual or natural forces by manipulation of the ether. That is, the fabric of reality. Manipulation of time and probability. Those are bound by the universe, hell, magic's explicit creation in all prefaiths was the dissolution or destruction of a cosmic entity or order

no i didnt confuse hostility with evil. i didnt even mention evil, but thanks for assuming so much, it makes you seem really smart. so wolves are hostile for eating bunnies? its funny how if they ceased their hostility the bunnies would all die from over population and starvation. its seems to me the hostile thing is to not eat them. see how silly your thinking is? [quote] If you knew anything about magic (you obviously don't), then you would comprehend that magic is the channeling of either spiritual or natural forces by manipulation of the ether. That is, the fabric of reality. Manipulation of time and probability. Those are bound by the universe, hell, magic's explicit creation in all prefaiths was the dissolution or destruction of a cosmic entity or order [/quote] thats what i said! please read my comments before you reply so i dont have to keep repeating myself. Magic is an in universe occurrence, and even if it did have an influence on time, that influence ends as soon as time stop being a factor. which happens a lot. so anything outside of this universe has no connection to anything we call magical. obviously youre still unsure about a lot of things but i can feel you coming closer to the truth.

No, you never did state that hostility was evil, true, but the manner in which you state things is quite ambiguous (which could be considered a logical fallacy). As if you're bordering on two thoughts or trying to lure me into a trap of words. Yes, wolves are the hostile aggressors for rabbits when they consume them. Overpopulation and starvation are neutral things as they are inanimate such as the solar EM waves. Hostility cannot be performed by an inanimate object or consequence of the lack of action without intent. This is the reason why hitting a biker with your car by accident is considered manslaughter and not murder, principle-wise. The wolves do not intend to massacre the rabbits without consumption, they just disappear. When does time just "stop being a factor"? That's illogical to say and can only be applied to before the creation of the universe (which could've always been by Christian logic, even without God). Also, you agree with me that God is magic and now state that he isn't...a bit hypocritical, but an understandable mistake when on mobile. The truth is that God doesn't exist to me.