At no point have I argued what the origin of the universe could be, and unlike you I am not narcissistic enough to presume I have the answer, just that your argument is fundamentally flawed, which it is. I am not telling you that your conclusion is absolutely wrong, just that your justification of how you reached your conclusion is.

so we agree, you offer nothing but unfounded criticism for other peoples ideas while supplying no substituting explanations. So a hundred and fifty years ago you were the guy saying 'its not evolution, i dont know what it is, but i know it aint that!' alright thank you for your time, now i believe you're needed in rome to tell them its not the lead in the water making everybody crazy. if you only came here to say that your limited idea of a god must abide by the laws of a universe he has yet to create then you have succeeded in your great deed. im sure we are all impressed by how many times you repeated yourself even though it didnt make sense the first time. but i cant help myself, let me just lay it out one more time for posterity. 1. we know the universe had a beginning (according to our specific perspective of time) 2. we know that the laws of physics governing the operations of this universe break down and become meaningless as you approach this point. 3. ANY theory regarding this point or beyond would not be testable or falsifiable, just pure belief 4. ANY theory regarding the singularity itself would not be expressed in any recognizable mathematical language that exists today (our current understanding of math doesnt work) so it becomes clear that science can never have a better theory than religion (because science cant probe non existence) all they can do is steal religious ideas and slap a new name on it. Multiverse, infinite came from no where, cant see it. great ideas guys Our universe popped from nothing. how? why?...how? this is really the kind of stuff they talk about. its embarrassing. And that whoever it was that created the universe, according to all physicists ever, would not be bound by the rules, laws, and logic of the universe he is bound to create. (because it is plain and clear that the laws that determine our logic do not exist prior to our universe) and thus would not require an infinite regression (like it would using the laws of our universe, which HE ISNT)

Once again you are just weakening your own argument, you are saying that the laws of this universe don't exist prior to this universe. That means that the universe just popping into existence is just as, if not more feasible than a creator god. The fact is you have not offered one piece of evidence or even a lingering thought that gives your argument any credibility whatsoever, all you have done is weaken your own argument further. Your op was a logical fallacy and all you have done is help me prove that.

A universe just popping into existence is just as, if not more feasible than a creator god? cool dude, i didnt know that. of course for me to fully except this premise i would like to see your calculations. im a big fan of odds and probabilities so of course im very excited to see these fascinating equations you used to come to this stern conclusion. please hurry, i want to make sure anybody who reads this thread doesnt think youre just talkin out your butt.

But that would be using laws of this universe which you have constantly argued don't apply prior to the existence of this universe.........seriously do you actually think, or do you just type the first idiotic nonsense that pops into your head?

ya that is stupid idea. when someone posted it i couldnt even laugh, i just felt embarrassed for him. first he says that without our physics, god and no god are equally probable, THEN he says that even those invented probabilities dont apply! Its like the poor guy is arguing with himself, and both sides are losing.

.......hmmmmm, I think I have broken your brain.

oh, my bad, it was just you the whole time. hey, by any chance do you have multiple personalities? and are those personalities mentally challenged? it would explain a lot. obviously you cant figure out if god is very probable, not very probable, or if probabilities have no meaning at this point id be blown away if you could count to 1. but i do love your replies, they make me feel so nostalgic, like something i would have written in middle school, if i hadnt received an education and was dumb, deaf and blind. i cant say youve offered anything close to intellectual for our little chat but i can still enjoy a conversation in which i can spread knowledge, share wisdom and offer a fellow destiny fan some advice on how to not fail life. (even if in vain)

You haven't shared any knowledge or wisdom, you have spent this entire conversation contradicting yourself and showing that you are unable to think in a logical manor. You've strengthened my argument while weakening yours.

oh, calm down. i was just playing. you dont gotta get all serious and defensive. i really was just having fun, not trying to be mean spirited i just love talking about this stuff. but you seem to just be copying and pasting at this point so if you want to post one more 'i know you are but what am i' so you can have the last word and some small sense of accomplishment then feel free. honestly i hope one day you will be able to contribute to this conversation, i'd be interested in what you actually have to say. til then, thanks for the chat and of course, GOD BLESS!!!!

BTW, from what i've seen on here, you should be a republican campaign manager, you have all the skills, dont talk about how incompetent i am, just focus all energy on attack ads against the opponent. and make sure you attack him personally, thats how you get all the dummies to get on your side. i wish you and the trumpster good luck next year.