At no point did i say "god must exist because something cant come from nothing" that sounds like a sherlock holmes deduction of the origins of the universe. and then you misquote me again (not just in words but in meaning) "So basically you have been saying that this universe could well have popped into existence without a creator god because the laws of this universe didn't apply yet." This assumes the pre universe realm would have already existing properties that allow for the presentation of a universe. i would never go so far out of my way to invent some special outer universe conditions for which i have no proof to explain something i dont understand. thats a job for the scientists. Let me tell you what a learned person reading our conversation would see Me: here is an explanation for existence that is superior to any scince has to offer. You: you cant say that Me: why? You: because. Me: i have the confidence to offer my ideas and stand behind them, would you like to share an explanation that you have confidence in? You: you're stupid, you're a moron, you're an idiot Me: Its becoming increasingly obvious to me that you know very little about this subject matter either religiously, scientifically or even philosophically. it seems the sole patch of ground you stand on consists of nothing more than disregarding anything that doesnt fit into your narrow view blinded by ignorance (in the same sense that everyone is ignorant) leaving you with only the option of personal insults in a desperate attempt to give your reply the slightest sense of petty patronization. So, if you please, would you be so kind as to offer any other idea that even comes close to explaining the universe as mine? or do you admit that its better than anything you've ever heard? You: ... (im waiting)