[quote]Okay. Im overall tired of seeing posts about year one weapons. You fail to see why the year 1 weapons need to be left behind. First of all, all the old guns have an unobtainable set of perks that will just be OP compared to anything now for the sake of balance. I already have guns like my supremecy and my jolders hammer before field scout was taken out of the possible perks for machine guns, and i probably have quite a few more with impossible perk combinations. If they just changed the perks, it would defeat the purpose of keeping them. What they need to do is just ensure that from y2 forward, consider the next year so that we wont have to repeat this process every damn year. But for now, the Y1 weps need to be left behind for the sake of balance.[/quote] Right or wrong many players believed that they were going to build a character and take it though the destiny experience as they wanted.not take a naked guardian through after being stripped every year. This wasn't the case,although it was said before release and told/explained by deej after dark below that redundancy wouldn't be a part of destiny. It's a simple case of trust,and deej needs to get a statement out to address year one and explain a bit more about what's to come,WHATEVER the mechanics are to be.and a little apology might help. Then many players may be able to try destiny again.....

The plan was for this to be a growing and evolving game. I think after this, they are going to come up with a way for year 3 not to be basically a reset. I think a start would be balancing weapons more often, not once every 3 or 4 months, like maybe once or twice a month. Then isssues like this will happen far less often and there would be no reason to not allow these weapons to continue, but for now, vanilla weapons especially just breaks their balance of the game.

This is the whole point. There is no need to be talking about what anyone thinks..... Let us know,instead of this crap no roadmap approach to the game. It's just so bloody amateurish.

The plan was also to have Player Trade and Gambling as well. Quite clearly nothing about Destiny is written in stone or what we were lead to believe.

What about exotics

Exotics are being brought foward, just not all at the same time. Revealed in edge magazine. And they are changing perks on those, not to mention.

You fail to mention how some will not even be here until year 3

I didnt know that part. Really? Wow. THAT is dumb.

[quote]Okay. Im overall tired of seeing posts about year one weapons.[/quote] LOL! No offense, but I am probably the WORST person for you to try and "make your stand" against with all this. Past experience indicates people don't do too well against me. [quote]You fail to see why the year 1 weapons need to be left behind.[/quote] Riiiiight... Haven't heard THAT line a hundred times. XD [quote]First of all, all the old guns have an unobtainable set of perks that will just be OP compared to anything now for the sake of balance.[/quote] Oh yeah? Care to elaborate on those perks and what exactly makes them so OP and why? [quote] If they just changed the perks, it would defeat the purpose of keeping them.[/quote] Who said anything about changing the perks? Why would they even NEED to do that anyways? You don't seem to have really thought this through extensively enough. [quote]What they need to do is just ensure that from y2 forward, consider the next year so that we wont have to repeat this process every damn year.[/quote] OR! Create and focus on the innovation of new types of weapons and new perks in general instead of trying to compete or recycle previous content and gun designs. [quote]But for now, the Y1 weps need to be left behind for the sake of balance.[/quote] Allow me to hit that with the ultimate comeback ever! [b]"No."[/b]

Im not even going to begin explaining entirely because youve been spouting this bullshit on here for months but ill say this. What makes having field scout on a jolders hammer op? Because now machine guns cant get field scout, and only have 20 to 30 in the mag, my jolders hammer holds 50, and when i get heavy ammo in pvp i get 79 rounds, i can go an entire match with my jolders hamer because all i need is 3 shots to kill someone. Not to mention, the overall fact that these set of perks are not obtainable, makes it not only unfair to newer players, but breaks the balance of the game they are trying to seek. Hints why they removed those perks from those weapon's tables in the first place? Did you not think of that? I knew you wouldnt agree, ive seen too many of your posts about this bullshit. You just dont get it, actually you just dont want to see it. You dont think i thought it through but truth is you havent. Anyone with old and currently impossible perk sets will wreck people with it especially when 2.0 comes out. And creating innovative new perks and shit does not solve the issue of what you quoted and is entirely unrelated.

[quote]Im not even going to begin explaining.[/quote] Oh come on, that is just WAY too easy for me to attack. I'll be nice and let it slide this time. [quote]What makes having field scout on a jolders hammer op?[/quote] I thought you weren't even going to begin explaining anything to me? XD Sorry, I had to at least make that one. [quote]Because now machine guns cant get field scout, and only have 20 to 30 in the mag, my jolders hammer holds 50, and when i get heavy ammo in pvp i get 79 rounds, i can go an entire match with my jolders hamer because all i need is 3 shots to kill someone.[/quote] 1: So your PvP gripe should impact the entire rest of the game for everyone else? In case you didn't know, having Field Scout for any weapon can often times mean the difference between life or death when you're being heavily outnumbered in PvE. But screw them so long as your PvP experience doesn't get impacted at all, am I right? That isn't at all selfish. 2: So because Machine Guns can't get Field Scout anymore (Proof? I haven't personally seen this mentioned anywhere) that supposedly makes all other old content weapons OP? 3: Your opponents must be rather horrible if you're surviving long enough each and every time you happen to get Heavy Ammo. I mean a single 1-Hit Kill Rocket from any launcher will end that spree in a heartbeat, whether or not you end up killing the other guy in the process. Iunno about that one. 4: I fail to see why having Field Scout makes your Machine Gun so crazy OP when I can ping you from outside your effective range with a sniper rifle for an instant kill with a head shot. [quote]Not to mention, the overall fact that these set of perks are not obtainable, makes it not only unfair to newer players, but breaks the balance of the game they are trying to seek.[/quote] I repeat, care to elaborate on said perks that are so OP that its just broken to have them continue forward? [quote]I knew you wouldnt agree, ive seen too many of your posts about this bullshit. You just dont get it, actually you just dont wnt to see it.[/quote] Not at all. I'm an intellectual who adheres to the Laws of Logical Deduction. If you can present a strong enough case, I have no choice but to agree with you. The problem is that you aren't. But tell me something. Riddle me this; have you considered the possibility that you might be wrong about all this and that what I'm saying is in fact correct? Before I ever say anything, I always discuss it with others and likewise subject my own opinions to detailed scrutiny. In doing so, I create a case from both opposing views. I've already judged everything from your standpoint.

1. Get on destiny right now, get some machine gun and see how long it takes you to obtain field scout... youll run out of motes and weapon parts. Also a google search would work. 2. I actually play pve more than i do pvp. But the fact of the matter, is its op for pvp. I didnt say field scout makes them drestically op, it just gives a clear cut advantage, and its going to be even easier to dodge rockets than it is now. Im gonna guess you dont pvp much. If i can kill most before they shoot anything, and its going to be even easier to dodge, ive already been on 15+ killstreaks with it. since you cannot get it anymore for these guns, there are other perks you can no longer obtain that make certain weapon types OP and thats why they removed them. Not "crazy OP" but they want to balance the game and it would be unfair for new players. You said if i bring up a strong point youd agree, but i highly doubt it, youve been spouting this bullshit for months, and im pretty sure youve been hit with logic by 100s and 100s of other people. It just isnt considered what YOU think is a viable reason. Btw, i edited my last post, before you posted yours. PS. I kill snipers with machine guns all the time because none of the maps have enough range to disable me from doing that unless youre on combined arms.

[quote]1. Get on destiny right now, get some machine gun and see how long it takes you to obtain field scout... youll run out of motes and weapon parts.[/quote] You do realize that all the vanilla weapons and Dark Below stuff DON'T have Reforge, right? I think the REAL problem in all that is Reforge itself. Also, I have the BTRD Machine Gun that is waaaay better than all my other MGs and it doesn't have Field Scout. Care to comment on that? [quote]Also a google search would work.[/quote] I'm not going to google YOUR evidence. =P [quote]2. I actually play pve more than i do pvp. But the fact of the matter, is its op for pvp.[/quote] My point still stands, why should PvP nonsense impact the rest of the game? There are plenty of people who DON'T play PvP. Any particular reason why you feel its alright to screw those people? They're innocent in all of this, yet they are the ones being victimized. [quote]But the fact of the matter, is its op for pvp. I didnt say field scout makes them drestically op[/quote] .......................................Really? You say its OP and then immediately say its basically not as bad? OP is OP, there are no varying degrees of it. Either something is overpowered or its not. You don't find this to be at all contradicting? [quote]it just gives a clear cut advantage[/quote] How? You haven't really done a good job of supporting this claim. All you've really been able to do is say that Heavy Ammo drops in PvP award too much ammo. That doesn't indicate there being anything at all wrong with Field Scout itself. [quote]and its going to be even easier to dodge rockets than it is now.[/quote] Proof? Not like it matters either which way. You do realize how stupid easy it is to dodge Machine Guns, right? I don't know, I think you're just not getting much in the way of actual competent opponents. But that's neither here nor there, this is just ultimately subjective controversy which has no real place in any kind of legitimate debate. [quote]Im gonna guess you dont pvp much.[/quote] You'd be wrong, actually. Though by comparison the majority of my time played has been in PvE, mainly due to how lackluster the PvP is when compared to Halo. [quote]If i can kill most before they shoot anything, and its going to be even easier to dodge, ive already been on 15+ killstreaks with it.[/quote] Ugh... "Killstreaks"... Let me guess, you're a COD person, huh? Let me just clarify something right now. I hate the COD franchise and think its a pointless game series that just insists upon itself over and over again. Just a constant money maker for Activision. I happen to be a SPARTAN from the Halo culture. That should be more than enough to infer where I stand on most of that, especially if you watch the little video I included with this comment up above. [quote]since you cannot get it anymore for these guns, there are other perks you can no longer obtain that make certain weapon types OP and thats why they removed them. Not "crazy OP" but they want to balance the game and it would be unfair for new players.[/quote] Again, you're still contradicting yourself. Can you please, if you're going to keep repeating yourself, provide more examples and explain why/how these older perks are so good and so OP/not-so-OP that they unbalance the game for newer players? [quote]You said if i bring up a strong point youd agree, but i highly doubt it, youve been spouting this bullshit for months, and im pretty sure youve been hit with logic by 100s and 100s of other people.[/quote] There were a few who did engage me in actual logical debate. In the end, they now agree and support me and what I'm saying. Most of the time people only THINK they are putting forth logic when in reality they just tip toe around a subject repeating themselves and then after I ask them the "big questions" they either ignore the questions entirely or just vanish and stop responding. You planning on doing the same? [quote]PS. I kill snipers with machine guns all the time because none of the maps have enough range to disable me from doing that unless youre on combined arms.[/quote] Sounds like you've encountered a lot of fail snipers then, bud. Example of a GOOD Sniper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yei49wkvic

1. I didnt google it myself but i figured itd be common knowledge by now, pretty sure my jolders will beat your btrd any day. Vanilla weapons dont have reforge, but they have perks you cant get, my SUPREMECY is a good example. 2. YES there are degrees to OP. Youre trying to twist my words and thats why you are claiming there is a non existent contradiction. Are you saying there is no difference in thorn op to say a handcannon that would one shot someone all the time? Theres different levels to op and there always has. 3. Never said machine guns arent, but theyre guns, not rockets so you dodge them differently. Makes no difference to the argument though. 4. Again, youre failing to understand, THE. PERK. COMBINATIONS. ARE. NOW. UNOBTAINABLE. Meaning it is unfair and some of them provide an unfair advantage, no other sniper can have 6 rounds and hold as many rounds as my supremecy aside from patience and time. THEY. HAVE. REMOVED. THESE. PERKS. from the table for a REASON. They want to balance their game, allowing these same weapons to continue just wont work for balance. If they allowed these weapons to continue, these weapons would be op down the line. I have already seen posts about people wanting old weapons banned on these forums. Im gonna go get a full list of removed perks because i can only think of my supremecy and my jolders. Reforging does have something to do with it but vanilla weapons came with these removed perks too. 5. I play COD but killstreaks are not just a CoD thing. I never liked halo. I feel its tied with GTA as one of the most overrated franchises to date. Editing

[quote]1. I didnt google it myself but i figured itd be common knowledge by now, pretty sure my jolders will beat your btrd any day.[/quote] Doubtful, but whatever. I have it equipped just for you if you'd like to go scope it out for yourself. [quote]Vanilla weapons dont have reforge, but they have perks you cant get, my SUPREMECY is a good example.[/quote] So what stops Bungie from making NEW perks that are just as good if not better? =P [quote]2. YES there are degrees to OP. Youre trying to twist my words and thats why you are claiming there is a non existent contradiction.[/quote] Either something is overpowered or not. Period. [quote]Are you saying there is no difference in thorn op to say a handcannon that would one shot someone all the time? Theres different levels to op and there always has.[/quote They would both be considered OP. I can't believe you're even asking that question. There is no gray area, only right or wrong, weak or strong, overpowered or not overpowered, fair or unfair. I deal in absolutes, not subjective reality dictated by personal opinion. [quote]3. Never said machine guns arent, but theyre guns, not rockets so you dodge them differently. Makes no difference to the argument though.[/quote] You know what is making a difference to the argument, though? The fact you keep ignoring questions that I'm asking you. Starting to irritate me, bud. You taking this seriously or just jerking me around?

Youre just being ignorant. There is definitely a grey area when talking about overpowered. Not everything is just op or not op, there is degrees to op, of course they would both be considered op but which one is MORE op? Obviously the handcannon that one shots you. I can argue that thorn is not op, cause i dont think it is. Im not ignoring anything, youre just giving me alot to reply to and i have to go back in forth to type in my edits. On top of that, youre just not accepting the answer because like i mentioned originally, youre just failing to see the point. They probably are making new perks, whether they are better or not, dont know but that doesnt change much either way. Its mainly the fact that the removed perks from certain weapon types are on these vanilla weapons, more or less not that it makes them op, although my jolders hammer, and supremecy easily outdo most new snipers because of one or two now unobtainable perks.

You fail to see that none of what you said maybe matters unless you are playing "against" someone, and then only in ToO and IB which those weapons can be left out if it's that much of a pain. In short it affects you nor anyone else in "any" way except for what I mentioned.

....what? Your post makes no sense. If none of it matters then grab the new guns, this aint the post for you.

If you don't understand then maybe it's not for you. It was clearly explained.