I really hate when people say Bungie is doing the lazy thing and doing a quick fix. Weapon changes to the scale they're doing don't take one day to implement and test. They're trying to balance out the game and you're just taking a dump on them for doing so.

This should have been done before launch. This is not call of duty and has a one year building cycle. They had years and even pushed the game back a year to finish it more. Before patches and dlc happened game worked and we're balanced (for the most part). Now the thought with all game designer is were will fix it later. I think the patch is great, but I think they will find that Red death is monster now and that hand cannons are going to be worse than auto rifles. Just my thoughts what do you think?

...And I hate when people reply with an ill thought out illogical response to a very valid argument. How is removing the main function perk from black hammer , a perk that gives the weapon character and identity in the game this forcing it into mediocrity considered balance ? How is forcing guardians to wait an extra three seconds for ammunition to spawn on IB thus prolonging the almost unbearable grind in PvE considered balance ? If Bungie was properly play testing weapon balance changes from the offset then we wouldn't be in the position we are now in with auto rifles being near damn useless in PvP and endgame PvE content and shotguns are overused in PvP and PvE because of over powerful perks. Why are fusion rifles receiving another Nerf despite the fact that they are already underused in comparison to snipers and shotguns. Maybe you should engage your brain before tap tapping away on your keyboard with the first thing that enters your head.

The Black Hammer perk is not being removed, first of all. It is merely being tweaked to be what Bungie originally intended it to do. Black Hammer is not an exotic weapon, therefore it should not be as powerful as an exotic weapon. And how was my response illogical? I stated how my opinion was I don't like people saying Bungie is lazy, since they work very hard on their game. Is that too hard for you to understand? Maybe you should stop bashing other people's opinions for not being as "high and mighty" as your own.

Show me one post that says black hammer was originally going to have 18 rounds and pull ammunition from its reserve. You can't , because they never intended it to be that - you're just making it up. Please refrain from typing before engaging your brain.

Do you really think Bungie meant for Black Hammer to have infinite ammo with precision shots? Absolutely not. They've mentioned White Nail having many problems since it's conception and now they're fixing it. And at this point your insults are sad and bland. Resorting to insults is the lowest form of argumentation.

I've not insulted You once. I made a post in reply to DeeJ and You decided to comment. All I have done is point out the flaws in your mostly made up argument. In answer to Your question - Yes absolutely black hammer was without question intended to have infinite ammo following three critical hits - that is the perk. The problems Bungie talked about regarding white nail were referring to issues with critical damage against hive majors and ultras affecting activation of the perks function, not whatever you seem to think they are talking about. White nail is not OP in itself , the reason Bungie are reducing the perk is not as you said " it's what they always intended" as You have just made that up completely. The actual reason is that bosses with simplistic AI and movement patterns are being easily defeated by players with black hammer , G'Horn and Ice breaker. Bungie needs to spend time addressing the real problem in the game rather than nerfing the tools available to a player. Time , money and resources should be spent making encounters more complex , fun and challenging without using cheap lazy tricks such as making an endgame boss two levels above a player or reducing weapon effectiveness in patches. As per your comment of exotics meant to be more powerful than legendary - this is not the case. Bungie stated that exotics should look , feel and sound powerful but not be OP. Raid weapons have always been best in class weapons or extremely situational a reward for beating difficult endgame content. Trust me , I've been playing since beta on both XB1 and PS4 - I've beaten Atheon on hard as a sub lvl 30 and defeated Crota on hard as a team of 30's and 31's. How many changes to the game have you seen ? How long have you been playing ?

I started playing in January which, yes is late, and unfortunately I didn't get that challenge of defeating Atheon with sub lvl 30s because I was carried through a lot of the experiences. I differ to you and other players with more experience and maybe have a better connection to the game (I'm not sure since I started playing this game I've loved it and it is my favorite game of maybe all time). I understand people's frustration about Bungie messing up in the first place, but I don't like hearing people gripe and complain about changes they believe will be for the better of the game. I do agree with you where Bungie needs to focus on making encounters more fun and challenging to play, but that's not something we as players will see until after the Taken King.

Then a lot of your points are invalid. Not because you are new to the game because I couldn't give a monkeys about that , grimoire means nothing other than you took the time to look for ghosts with the help of YouTube. I have watched Bungie screw up auto rifles with a completely OTT Nerf that myself and others saw coming , A change that brought about the age of Thorn in PvP and an age of uselessness in PvE. I have watched as fusion rifles were over nerfed thus bringing in the era of the long range shotgun in PvP and ensuring they are now rarely used in any end game content. I have witnessed first hand Bungies heavy hand when it comes to weapon balance - This time I think they may be putting right many of the wrongs from patch 1.1.1 which as I've said is a good thing. The nerfs to Black hammer and ice breaker are not.

I wouldn't go as far to say my points are invalid, as I know what those nerfs did and I've seen gameplay. I would say I defer to you on your experience of the game. Again, it's just the griping and complaining I see about Black Hammer and Ice Breaker and Gjallarhorn etc. that really grind my gears. These changes are happening, you can petition on the forums all you want, but it's not going to do anything. I just want people to get over it.

I think they will change it. I've never seen this much commotion over a proposed change to the game. I predict a huge loss of the player base if this goes through. The difference now is that many players bought the base game and three expansions on the strength of the bungie brand and the Halo name. With money still in players pockets and players wary of bungie's value proposition after TDB and HOW bungie needs to tread carefully. Many players asked for the damage done to auto rifles in 1.1.1 to be fixed , many players wanted shotgun effectiveness reduced , many , many players are happy that thorns effectiveness is reduced. No one asked for changes to BH , IB or Ghally. Hawkmoon should also be left untouched as the chance of a one hit kill is so slim , in a weapon who's perks are all based on luck that it's almost the main identity of the gun. It's too much at a time when a lot of players are on the verge of stopping playing altogether.

I feel like those people won't stop playing honestly. It's a bluff to try to make Bungie worry about their fanbase, and I don't think it's going to work. Bungie is going to continue to do what they think is best for the game, and they will still have many supporters and players playing this game. The people who think a few changes to overpowered weapons are going to ruin the game are shallow and can go back to playing Call of Duty.

Only time will tell , But something is very different this time. People have deleted characters and weapons on Youtube , many clans have disbanded - of course some are just bluffing but just looking at My friends list and the amount of people not playing Destiny any more tells me that the mood of the player base has changed. Halo 5 is just around the corner for XB1 players too , and it looks good - and You can bet your bottom dollar 345 studios will be watching the mistakes Bungie are making now and taking notes for the future. Bungie ( And more specifically the weapon balance man John W ) have proven time and time again that what they think is best for the game is often wrong and the direction they think it should be taken is often misaligned. Bungie assumes the player base is made up of 15 year old kids and they'll do as they are told , however the age of the average gamer worldwide now is 36 years old - These guys are the ones paying Deej's and Johns wages and these guys can think for themselves and if the goalposts of a product are constantly moving - fatigue will swiftly set in.