i mean, this may seemed as a more "pro destiny" response then what i wanted it to be. my point is im banking in for the long haul, yes they screwed up A LOT of things. but part of the issue is you gotta look at information at whats given to you. 1. You got one thing, a major flaw, for most games who dropped within the first two years of ps4, is a majority of players were still on last gen consoles. so 2/3 of your profit is on one, and 1/3 moved to new. A lot said they just of committed to just new consoles, but then thats 2/3 of the profit they are losing. They wouldnt of made money, so just like watch dogs, just like the sports game that dropped in the first year, they were scaled back to fix that reason. thats part of the reason why we didnt get a full exploration area. they had a 500 million dollar budget but they also had counter deals to pay publisher based on the amount of sales they accumulated...which was activision. so we can boast about the money made, but in reality bungie still had small amounts to work with. 2. This leads to my second point, that even you have to admit, the game has improved greatly from day 1. Part of the issue is the community was so toxic in terms of gunplay, they had no choice but to please one, and overcompensated. same reason how they cant predict how fast people would hit 30. So with the dark below, i agree with you, it was terrible. no content at all (i payed for season pass so i only dropped 35$ total) everything was done in a week. i hated destiny and the route it was going. i didnt play it for three months, dealing with all the rumors of a "super hard VoG" and other things. So when HoW dropped, it was a MAJOR improvement. after the bounty glitch was patched, they had two new rep factions to work with that actually take time. The arena is a great concept, still needs small adjustments like rotating the buffs for skolas other then the burns (which is obv changed, but general buffs rounds 1-5 are not rotated), PvP in trials was awesome, by far my favorite game mode at this time. That to me, compensated for their screw up with The dark below. By far i still have to finish reputation and get ToO weapons that i do not have yet, and thats with me flawlessing about 9-10 times now. 3. Community will make this game change. We must stop comparing it to halo for PvP, and comparing it to that of CoD in terms of weapons. Halo didnt have subclasses with elements, it was straight up gunplay, you couldnt even sprint in Halo, the originals? im pretty sure. so to compare this PvP to that one is absurd as a point. They just need to find a way to weed out those who are toxic, complaining every time a nerf occurs and leave the game how it is. Personally, day 1 i had no problem with PvP. everything was balanced, the only "iffy" factor was hand cannons, which could of had a small buff, and everything would still been equal. but soooo many people were mad about auto rifles, and fusion rifles, and whatever else, they nerfed them, and buffed hand cannons and shottys, so it should be interesting to see what they deal with on rebalancing weapons. 4. Previously i was skeptical of TTK. extremely skeptical, but i started watching videos/streams from those who were at E3 and most people extremely enjoyed, or said this was a major step and a true expansion in the right direction. Rumors i heard off the board right now, other then the three subclasses, and two game modes, is theres still crucible modes to be announced yet, rumors over 300 legendarys to be added, over 50 exotics, light level boosted all the way to 50. now yes only one new area to explore/one new planet, but they are adding another 5 areas to the star map. whole new events other then Iron Banner, new public events to run through, more in depth story. Thats just some rumors ive heard, and for 40$ that is more, substantially more then what we got in "expansion 1+2" which was renamed to "episodes" if you ask developers. This is the TRUE expansion that you want to bank on. Just to close sake of this argument, as i see you are intelligent as well, just either keep watch, dont focus on the negative things people want to gloat about, doesnt matter what either of us say will change your mind, mine, etc. if yo u at the end of the day feel its worth 40 dollars near launch, im sure youll grab, if not there is other games dropping that will compensate. trust me, if it falls through that TTK is bad, ill be just as dissapointed, but in a game that has a 10 year contract, with all the adversity shit they had to go through, with a whole new styled game they had to make, im hoping the TTK was gone through carefully, and that well get a 40$ worth product. As DEEJ has said, they will be discussing everything the box will include, since they are aware of people being skeptical. Good Day man, was nice having a good convo with you!