Oh no, I agree that the Thorn makes an appearance in practically every match in the Crucible. The only time I tend to ever get killed by them is after I've already nailed them to a wall and that silly DoT that it does ends up managing to take me down afterwards. (Which is when I say -blam!- it and toss a Fusion Grenade at my feet and take as much of their team out with me, followed by a Self-Rez and me blitzing the shit out of them with my melee, heh heh heh... Fireborn ftw...) But yeah, its definitely a favorite of people. Which is funny cause I remember when practically NO ONE used the Thorn and all you would ever see was SUROS everywhere. You and Shadow both have good points to make. The Thorn IS used quite often by people, and I make that assumption based purely on encounter rate. 9 times out of 10, there will always be at least one person on either my team or the other team using the Thorn. That has been my personal experience with it. And I believe the reason for it is a couple factors. First, the Thorn gets a LOT of hate from people. You figure, kids see all the attention that the Thorn gets on the forums so they decide to use it as well in hopes that it will give them an edge. So that ends up being the only thing that they use in the Crucible. Obviously, if you use a weapon long enough, you'll eventually get good with it. That is the point Shadow was making. It just so happens that the Thorn is being used the most by these people because they think it has some magic power to make them win. Because we already know that the Thorn isn't unbeatable, and in fact there are many who can and will destroy anyone that claims to be "good" with the Thorn. But that's because those other people spent their time focusing their efforts on mastering other weapons instead. So basically, I agree with both of you. I don't believe in nerfing weapons, never have. Simply because once you start nerfing weapons, it never ends. If the Thorn gets nerfed, kids will just gravitate to the next thing they think is "end all" and then we'll all start seeing demands for that weapon to get nerfed as well. The end result is every weapon getting nerfed in the long run. Besides, nothing beats making a Thorn kid scream and send you hate mail for wrecking his ass repeatedly and then calling you a "hacker" because of it. LOL! XD