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7/3/2015 3:52:38 AM
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I want to say, as respectfully as possible, that you are totally wrong here. And now that my personal bias is on the table... More than any other issue discussed on these forums this one, in its own subtle way, strikes to the heart of what players want this game to be. I harken back to a bygone era when I was a WoW player. "Raids" were 25-man affairs, and they were rigorous exercises in coordination. One player messes up and carries the negative polarity debuff into the positive polarity group: everyone gets wiped. One player crosses between the tank and the red nether-beam: everyone gets wiped. Show up to the raid without a mic? You get left behind. Not even controversial. I remember too playing the Spartan Ops mode that shipped with Halo 4. No mics to be found, no coordination necessary. Just a group of players who happen to be in the same area shooting the same enemies. Quite fun in its own way. And those are the two ends of the spectrum on which Destiny finds itself. One of them has automatic match-making. The other does not. The matter really at issue here is where on that spectrum Destiny ought to fall. Including automatic match-making implies that end-game content should be doable by players who aren't communicating and coordinating. At present, that isn't the case with content like the Vault of Glass, and even less so with encounters like Skolas. While the level of coordination required by a true MMORPG might be excessive in this game, it is the fact that Destiny leans in that direction that sets it apart and makes it interesting. If anything, the problem Destiny has in my mind is the failure to properly setup expectations for what the end-game should be like. Had I been designing the Strike missions, they would all culminate in boss encounters that required communication to finish. If no one talks, everyone fails. That creates the foundation for building relationships that become raid groups. That way the gap that exists, the gap that so many players have difficulty getting passed, between the match-made and end-game content is instead supplanted with a more guided progression into the socially oriented finale.
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  • They have a tool that you can find many players on your complaining on it right now. Stop blaming everybody else for your failers and learn to use the resources given to you by the game.

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  • I appreciate your post, but I fail to see where it makes me wrong. I played WoW for 7 years and matchmaking works just fine for it. Even lfr raids in WoW are 100 times more involved than Destiny's raids and in the hundreds I ran, I had one fail group. I fail to see why anyone thinks people are going to go into raids without mics. People communicate when content dictates it, out they at least listen if they're not a talker. Also, it wouldn't be hard for Bungie to prompt a message stating mics are required for success in those activities. People aren't stupid. Also, I've suggested numerous times a lfg lobby system for raids like Gears of War had. It can be private, full matchmaking or a mix of both. It would be very easy to do and solve every matchmaking issue this game has. There's no excuse in 2015 to release a game like Destiny and not have mm options in game.

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  • I'd be interested to know when you started playing WoW. I don't remember ever having a successful raid with randoms, and I remember a number of dedicated groups that struggled as well. The thing that I'm getting at is that the people who aren't comfortable with the notion of end-game match-making aren't wanting people to be blocked from because they aren't social butterflies. It's just that we want content that is of sufficient complexity that it requires high levels of coordination, and implementing match-making creates a contrary the expectation among players. What I think we can both agree on is the fact that the "social gap" is a real problem, and something that needs to be addressed. A "general" match-making service that puts the player into a 3 or 6 man group in orbit, and then lets the group leader select an activity may be an option to fix that, but it seems tacked on to me. There still wouldn't be the sort of progression in place that WoW had from the instanced dungeons with heroic modes that could start to prepare players for the raids.

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  • Started WoW in 2007 and there's absolutely no way you can compare a WoW raid to a Destiny raid. Destiny raids are more comparable to heroic dungeons.

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  • This is undeniably true. But the issue isn't what is, it's what we want. We want the raids to aspire to the complexity of the raids in traditional MMORPGs. Vault of Glass is almost universally regarded as better than Crota's End in no small part because Crota's End is simplistic in comparison. And we might hope that Bungie is listening to that feedback, because in a recent interview with Kotaku they hinted that the Taken King raid will focus more on coordination and puzzle-solving than either of the previous raids. For my part, I just can't reconcile that with a system that throws together groups of players by randomly drawing from anyone with their hand up.

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  • I can reconcile it easily, because it teaches people to lead.

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  • I'm not sure how that would be the case. I think the people with lots of friends would just go with their friends and the people on LFG posting "must have ghorn" will still be on LFG posting "must have ghorn". The match-making service will be full of people who aren't really prepared for what they are undertaking, and that will lead to more frustration than anything. This is, I think, the core of the issue though. You think match-making will make the game more fun for more players, and I think it will lead to frustration and ultimately the dumbing down of the end-game. The only way to really know for sure is to try what I previously suggested and create more complicated strike boss encounters. The update this week says that they are re-imagining some existing strikes in addition to the new ones they are adding. Perhaps they mean to implement just such a test?

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  • What your not getting is that frustrating or successful, people should have the right to try. Matchmaking would not affect you in any way. You claim you played WoW in which [i]every single activity[/i] has matchmaking and is successful, but somehow don't get that it works. If I know a raid and want to run with randoms, I can teach them the raid if they don't know it. You theory that randoms will all suck and be losers is what's wrong with gaming these days.

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  • Thank you lots of games has mm or tool to find players and is successful people are not morons they can learn mechanics lol

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