Lol. I don't think I've ever been on the other side of the fence with you on a topic before. They've given spread sheet numbers for TTK. Again, those numbers are two people firing at standing still non combative targets. -They do not factor in range, movement, etc. -They do not factor in the alternate perk variations available of other weapons. -They do not factor in individual skill with particular weapon classes. -They do not factor in different map layouts. I respect you and always enjoy your posts, so I ask with all do respect... Why weren't the Thorn users at the top of all the IB leaderboards? I didn't see anyone using them putting up 2+ k/d's each match. What I did see was them having good and bad games like everyone else. I hadn't used a scout in PvP since December. I switched to Hygiea Noblesse the last day and I'm pretty sure I wasn't outdone by many Thorns. If anything else is inferior and it's so OP, how am I able to consistently beat Thorn with Pulse Rifles, ARs and now Scouts? Thorn[i] is[/i] great, but it's great for a certain style of play. It's not a jack of all trades. Peace PB