You should try using the Thorn again and tell me you can't shoot it insanely fast with decent accuracy. You would be lying if you said you couldn't. I'm not arguing that I struggle with all the Thorns in PvP now, I'm arguing that it is a tad ridiculous at how many you see and how easy it makes for players with no skill at all suddenly appear "good". Please don'y kid yourself saying you can't get two shot by a Thorn. If you are not maxed out in Armor then you can easily be two shot with it. My secondary is a Warlock that I run Recovery and Agility on. Thorns are the bane of my existence then. However, you do help my case by mentioning the Red Death. It is glorious in the right hands. IN THE RIGHT HANDS. It takes precision and patience to use. It takes skill. My argument is the Thorn doesn't. The Thorn has an insane amount of impact, range, and stability (if perfect balance is selected) compared to other hand cannons. So saying it has trash perks is just not correct. Aggressive ballistics and Send it are all you need to make this thing a bleeding Praedyth's Revenge with twice the target acquisition. My argument about seeing Thorn the most is that it has become annoying. It has turned into a Thorn fest where Destiny used to have a larger variety. The main problem I have with most online games is that people with find the most OP set up and weapons, then just use that until a new patch or game comes out. I don't blame the players. They're just trying to give themselves the best chances of success. That does not mean the game is balanced though. Check my past couple of games on my Titan. I clearly don't struggle with Thorn users. But to answer your last question: I change my load out and play style depending on the map and other team's set up. Sometimes I use Pulse rifles and shotguns. Sometimes it's hand cannons and snipers. I change my set up to fit my need. Thorn users don't have to do that. It doesn't matter what the case is. Thorn can do it. Range? Got it. RoF? Good enough. It's the most OP gun in the hands of the incapable. I'm arguing against the Thorn because I've used it in the past, I see it a lot. I know it's OP. Basically, I'm saying you need to see the Thorn from a general, casual players perspective, not yours. It makes PvP unplayable without it for some. I don't want all hand cannons nerfed. I don't want the Thorn or TLW to be unusable. I do want balance. I want all players with all weapons to stand a chance.