Exactly. I have Thorn and I hate it. I just don't like the way it forces me to play because head to head it gets wrecked. I also love that you brought up Red Death, because in my opinion, it is the single most devastating primary in the game in skilled hands, but no one ever complains about it. Why? I think it's because of the reasons in my op. It's not a raid weapon, it has no burn and pretty much everyone has had opportunity to get one. Thank you for the great post.