Are you seriously trying to say the thorn does all of its damage ticks in a time span of a half second? And the guns you mentioned do only 1 half of the players health in damage if all the bullets from the burst connect. With the thorn only one bullet has to hit. More consistent then a burst. And as for the rapier, last I checked it doesn't do over 100 damage for a single precision shot. Also this head to head abyss defiant argument is crap. Here's a ttk chart. If the player with the thorn is a good shot versing a player with the abyss defiant being a good shot aswell the thorn will win the majority of the time. (Ttk chart below) The person you killed with your abyss defiant obviously had terrible aim. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1L7FV9l4hXo2tHD3XlFUp854XvJIwTKFIPvASLduPPS4/htmlview?pli=1