Because it isn't. The gun is just [i]annoying[/i], but it is [i]easily [/i] countered. You just need to accept that you have to [i]adapt[/i] your fighting style to deal with it. You have to be patient, and you have to fight from [i]COVER.[/i] After that, the weapon is no more difficult to deal with than any other.

You don't have to tell me how to counter it. I do fine in crucible. I'm not saying this for myself, in a subjective manner. I'm saying this as objective as I can possibly be. Looking at it from more than one perspective is essential. Whenever I play with Thorn - and I rarely do because it doesn't satisfy me - I just start laughing a bit and constantly thinking "haha, this gun is so OP...". How is it not enough for you that every single team in IB is a full thorn team? How does that in any way implicate a balanced system where all guns are viable in the right hands. Because even if thorn is not OP in terms of damage, it is still OP if every hand is the right hand for this gun. There should be no such thing in a first person shooter. But hey, that is my opinion. Now I want to ask you a question. Do you use Thorn?

Because---now that ARs have been needed into non-competitiveness, and shotguns have had their ammo severely restricted--people aren't stupid. They're are NOT going to stick with weapons that are now a handicap. They WILL move to the NEXT most competitive weapon in the close-to-midrange combat that The Crucible maps foster. Thorn is powerful and one of the best, most balanced performing weapons in the game right now, since ARs have been wiped from the field and pulse rifles are not reliable at close range. Thorn is the same weapon (ignoring the subtle range nerfing) that it has been since December. It didn't magically become OP overnight. What happens is that patch 1.1.1 [i]drastically[/i] changed the weapon balance, and the meta shifted to accommodate. ARs got crippled and lost the ability to dominate close-to-midrange fights. At first shotgun rushers expanded to fill the vacuum created by the imbalance. Then Bungie clamped down on special ammo to rein in the shotgunners. So now that their two primary nemeses have had their fangs pulled, hand cannons are now filling the vacuum. TLDR: Thorn isn't OP. The problem is 1.1.1 destroyed the balance at close-to-midrange and each nerf is making it worse and narrowing weapon variety. ARs need to be buffed back to their pre 1.1.1 damage levels. Personally I use whatever is competitive, and suits the situation and character I'm running. Which means I rotate between several different primaries. One time I'll be in your face with TLW. Others I'll mix it up with Bad Juju and Red Death. Others I'll be blowing your head off from long range with Mida and sniper rifles.

Look, I respect your opinion. But mine is not going to change. For a weapon to be OP, one does not look at the weapon alone. A weapon can only be OP in full context. Therefor you will have to take into account all weapons. Where you say: "Thorn is powerful and one of the best, most balanced performing weapons in the game right now, since ARs have been wiped from the field and pulse rifles are not reliable at close range." It sounds to me that that is what being OP means. If ARs would not have been wiped and had pulse rifles been reliable at close range, Thorn would not be OP. If for instance weapon A does a damage of 50 per second, and all other weapons deal 80 damage per second, weapon A is underpowered. However, if weapon A does that same damage of 50 per second, but all other weapons deal only 20 damage per second, weapon A is overpowered. Thorn being the same gun as it always was does not mean it isn't OP.

You are never going to achieve the sort of balance you want in this game. Not as long as it is part of a loot-based RPG. The best you will ever get is a big game of Rock/Paper/Scissors. Where each class of weapon dominates a particular range but will be outclassed outside of that range. Thorn is [i]not[/i] OP in the context of this kind of weapon system. A good SR user will destroy Thorn at long range. Shotguns and TLW at close range. Red Death, Bad Juju and Hawkmoon will own it at mid-range if you go about it intelligently. The problem in the Crucible right now isn't that HCs are suddenly OP. It's that 1.1.1 rendered ARs UP and Bungie had been trying to fix the damag with more nerds rather than the buff that is the real solution.

I remember the other day, I was hitting headshots 100% at long range with Mida, but Thorn beat me by miles. Scout rifles are supposed to win at that range, but they don't. You can't say I'm not good enough because I didn't miss. His time to kill was shorter so Thorn beat me at long range. This is why it's OP.

His aim was also better. That's why he beat you. It's easier to headshot with Mida than with Thorn, and he was good enough to overcome the camera shake your shots were causing and return fire accurately in spite of it. Sometimes the other guy is just [i]better[/i] than you. No shame in that.

I'm going to stop replying now though, because you are immune to logic apparently. Getting on my nerves a bit. I have checked your crucible record... Can't really take much of what you say seriously. Even more so when you keep contradicting yourself.

My logic is fine I'm just challenging your views. Bottomline is I'm very familiar with both weapons. Part of the reason why Mida is so deadly is that it had almost no recoil and causes a LOT of camera shake it the player being headshotted. So it's difficult to return fire accurately. (In pve, the rounds [i]stagger[/i] enemies). If someone overcame that---which is hard to do with a hand cannon---to quickly two shot you in the head at long range.... He earned that win by just flat-out out playing you. Just tip your hat and say that you'll get em next time.

Still don't understand how you can't see that if truly 90% or so players use Thorn, that fact alone would mean it's OP. If you'd compare it to any other shooter, for instance call of duty, which most people are familiar with, if 90% of the players use one particular gun anyone would say it's OP. This game being loot based doesn't change that at all.

Nah, almost no one is better than I am. Especially not aiming.