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Edited by TeslaDoc:
5/5/2015 8:29:48 PM
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Thorn puts out great damage and [u]full[/u] DoT at short, medium and long range. Unlike all other primaries and all secondaries. Check.
Thorn is a primary that is never short of ammo, unlike special weapons. Check.
Thorn has good impact, stability and RoF, unlike special weapons which never have all three. Check.
Thorn can hold 9 rounds, 97 in total (with the right gear on). It starts the game with more ammunition than all the special weapons. If it takes, say, 3 to 4 shots per kill, then you can kill over 20 people without reloading. Check.
Because Thorn can be deadly with 2 or 3 shots, you don't have to stop for ammo nearly as much as other primaries and all secondaries. This keeps you moving, which is key to survival, and also keeps you away from ammo crate ambushes. Check.
Thorn has good impact, stability and RoF, unlike almost all other primary weapons which never have all three. Check.
When you ADS with Thorn, you still have excellent peripheral vision, which helps situational awareness. Not so with many other weapons. Check.
Because Thorn competes with all other primary weapons and all special weapons, you don't have to switch weapons, which saves a ton of reaction time. Check.
The bullet from Thorn touches you and you start to burn to death. If you get out of the way before you die, you are combat ineffective until the DoT stops [u]and[/u] your health regenerates, unlike every other weapon. This can take up to 15 seconds, which is literally a lifetime in PvP. Check.
Thorn is OP.
EDIT: Tightened it up a bit and clarified a few points.
EDIT: Anyone is free to cut and paste this or paraphrase it if they support this argument.
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Your forth point negated everything else you said. 9 in the mag + 68 in reserve = 97? Minimum 2 shot headshot, yet you can get 20+ kills with 9 bullets? In addition to that... [quote]Alright let me walk you through this The gun we have now, is nearly identical to the gun we had at launch. What changed? Mag increased from [b]6[/b] to 9 Reload speed increased by a fair bit As well as a minor buff to Stability and Weapon Handling (6 rounds, not 5, proving you have no idea what you're talking about.) (The stability buff it got was pretty small, and it always had Perfect Balance, meaning you have no idea what you're talking about) The damage however, along with the DoT, was [b]exactly the same[/b] And the general playerbase considered it trash. The buff it got? Did nothing but make it easier to use. Now, before the buff, the "accidental" DoT nerf from 7 per tick to 3 per tick just before one IrB. The gun was useless. I'd actually done fairly well with it up to that point, it was my main PvP weapon. It was hard to use, and I enjoyed the challenge of mastering it. And then they nerfed it, and it. was. unusable. I tried, and tried, but the fact of the matter was, without the DoT exactly where it is, the [b]gun is trash[/b]. Another point, do you know what I most commonly hear people say its great for? For doing the postmortem bounty because it's great at getting postmortem kills. ... ... ... [quote]because it's great at getting postmortem kills[/quote] [quote]getting postmortem kills[/quote] [quote]postmortem [/quote] Postmortem. As in it's great at getting kills [b]after the other guy has blown you (or I) [i]to ash.[/b][/i] It's a great gun to get outgunned with! Wait what? If it was so badly OP it wouldn't be so good at getting you Postmortems. Do you know what it really is? Fricking annoying to die to. And the problem with a gun that's fricking annoying to die to, is that you take notice of deaths to that weapon far more than any other weapon. You could get killed by Shingen-E 15 times in a match, get killed by Thorn 5 times, and you'll come rage on the forums about Thorn being OP and everyone using nothing but Thorn. You can go against a team where only a single opponent has it, but you'll rage about how the whole team used it. I've played with people who did exactly that. "The whole effing other team is using X OP weapon!!" I check. It's one guy. I watch the kill ticker. He dies to an even mix of other players, but he only rages when its the guy with X OP weapon. It's called Confirmation Bias And it means, basically, that you see what you [b]want or expect to see[/b]. I outgun it frequently with various guns, and I frequently outgun other guns with it. The Thorn is not OP.[/quote] -ScribeTheMad
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Edited by TeslaDoc: 5/5/2015 8:31:22 PMNot 20 kills with 9 bullets, sillyboots. 20 kills with all the bullets you carry from the time the game starts. Math, it's a cruel mistress. The point is no longer negated. EDIT: To clarify my math: 97 bullets with the [u]right gear[/u] on. Sorry, I should have clarified that earlier.
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Point still negated. Why? Mine cause you said [i]without reloading[/i]. I want your thorn, because apparently it can hold 97 bullets in one chamber.
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Edited by TeslaDoc: 5/5/2015 11:38:53 PM[quote]Point still negated. Why? Mine cause you said [i]without reloading[/i]. I want your thorn, because apparently it can hold 97 bullets in one chamber.[/quote] You are being pedantic. It weakens your point because it makes you seem angry and shrill. You [u]can[/u] do that number of kills with the number of rounds you spawn with. You can do this without ever visiting an ammo box. That's the point. Other people get it. You should see the number of likes this thread is getting.
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The DoT was bumped from 5 to 7 damage...? That's the difference between the old one and the new one
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The day you kill 20 people with a thorn without reloading, shoot me a video of it, and I'll send you 100 bucks.
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It's got penetration, right? Maybe if you line everyone up in a row...
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The day you get 20+ people in one game shoot me a video and I'll send you 100 bucks
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[quote]The day you get 20+ people in one game shoot me a video and I'll send you 100 bucks[/quote] My point is that you get much more bang for your buck with the ammo you carry with Thorn. Not as much as with any other primary.
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You don't need twenty people in one game! Six at a time is fine if you can kill with two headshots. You line 'em up, knock 'em down, and rinse and repeat three times, for twenty-four kills with eight bullets. [quote]The day you get 20+ people in one game shoot me a video and I'll send you 100 bucks[/quote] ... Deej, I'll give you $50 dollars if you implement twenty-one player Crucible!
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Maybe
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Checked all of the above, and I still say increase its DoT tick by 2. Its so frustrating to watch you tick down to one left but it stops....so annoying!!!!!
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Haha are you out of your mind?
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This. You mind if i copy it to my post?
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Edited by TeslaDoc: 5/5/2015 1:07:35 PM[quote]This. You mind if i copy it to my post?[/quote] No problem. And thanks for your support. EDIT: I tightened up the wording a bit. I added some stuff. Have another read if you wish. EDIT: Anyone is free to cut and paste it or paraphrase it if they support this argument.
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Sorry it won't fit, ill put something in the main post regarding to yours
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This post is the ultimate post. I have never seen something so damn true on the Internet in my life. Smh. Claps* for you man.
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[quote]This post is the ultimate post. I have never seen something so damn true on the Internet in my life. Smh. Claps* for you man.[/quote] Thanks. I tightened up the wording a bit.
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Perhaps people should select their perks to favor recovery.
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Edited by DarkestShad0w x: 5/5/2015 6:48:01 AMIncreasing your recovery doesn't rid you of thorns burn any sooner, you're out of commission for [u]almost[/u] just as long. Hell even red death can't heal you, the burn negates the full heal.
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Edited by SonOfTheShire: 5/5/2015 2:50:52 PMRed Death's ability cures Thorn's poison. So does Apotheosis Veil's. I think all health-regen abilities do.
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[quote]Perhaps people should select their perks to favor recovery.[/quote] Or they could just bring Thorn in to line with other exotics.
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Alternatively they could bring some other exotics in line with thorn.
