I'd have to say thorn is pretty overrated (my opinion) if you miss a head shot it's over dot won't kill you unless you land both head shots, in iron banner yesterday the group I was running with lost to a group of thorn users we stayed in the lobby and changed our strategy and ended up whooping that ass. It all depends on player skill and preferences for weapons, hand canons are absolutely brilliant if you land headshots, the last word is the only one that kinda allows you to miss headshots because of full auto. (And maybe hawkmoon) Thorn- good yes we all know it and we all see posts about it and how it should be nerfed I don't think it should be. It can be beat if you're skilled enough to use cover and not run back out(common knowledge) after it hits you with one headshot, yes the thorn takes skill but if you're going against a red death or hawkmoon and you don't land those headshots you will lose the gun fight simple strategy can take any weapon down and not getting caught in kill lock. (Trying for revenge) Hawkmoon -probably the best hand cannon in the game (my opinion) if you miss your headshot you do have 3 luck in the chamber rounds so that body shot can make up for the headshot you missed if you get it. It's simple strategy that helps people in the game my two to the morgue can out duel a felwinters lie any day if "if" I play smart, if people keep crying nerf and don't figure out how to become skilled pvp players and learn simple strategies instead of running around like a chicken without its head the pvp will be burned to the ground. If you guys wouldn't mind checking out the rolls on my two to the morgue and against all odds should be on my titan and let me know what you think I'd greatly appreciate it, remember it takes skill and some luck in pvp but play start not like animals. Stay thirsty my friends.