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Edited by Kuzdal2: 5/4/2015 3:07:50 AM
122

Fixing Exotics: Thorn

Thorn, the weapon that started off as a laughed at weapon turned best gun in the crucible. At launch Thorn had many qualities that made people think that it was awful, very low stability, 6 round magazine, and most notorious, the 5000 hour reload time. The weapon received a lot of criticism in that a "hard to earn" weapon was bad. At this time, the gun could still 2 shot to the head, but with the low stability and mag size, you had to aim well and pick your shots, no spamming 9 shots into a doorway to get 2-3 kills. The gun performed well in the hands of a skilled player. [b]Then Bungie buffed the gun, with about a 2x stability increase, 50% magazine increase, and a reload speed increase.[/b] This put the gun from a relatively underused gun straight to the best gun in crucible, slowly gaining more and more users with time, and finally now has becoming the most used and most complained about weapon in the game. The gun is likely going to be toned down, the threads are everywhere, the stats of its prevalence will be viewable, and Bungie will likely bring the nerfbat. In the event they do, I propose bringing its magazine size and stability back to the levels they were on launch, keep the weapon a 2-shot kill, but force the user to expend some effort and show some skill in achieving the 2 shot kill by reducing its stability so bullets can not be spammed. In addition to the stability, bringing its magazine back to 6 will also force users to pick their shots more carefully, only having 6 before needing to reload, while this seems as an immediate nerf, the smaller magazine will bring much higher prevalence to the Final Round perk, which in the current state of the gun, is basically nonexistent. As a trade off for the magazine reduction, replace snap shot with field scout to compensate, giving the middle tree to customize the weapon between a focus in stability, range, or ammo. Tl;dr If Bungie is going to nerf Thorn, do so by cutting its stability and magazine back down to the numbers the gun launched with and replace snapshot with field scout. It was useable then, and it'll still be usable after a rollback. Edit: Reduce magazine size to 6 rounds but replace snapshot with field scout, giving the middle tree customization between stability, range and ammo. *Credit: iMurklin*

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  • [b]This was the one HUGE case of PVE players screwing up PVP that no one talks about.[/b] Thorn was so bad it was unusable in PVE. The old Thorn still wrecked in PVP. PVE players complained hard about it not being good, while PVP players that had it were going about owning with it. It got the crazy buff and now is the best PVP weapon in game. PVE ruined PVP just like people alway say PVP ruins PVE o.O

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    • If you don't support a Thorn nerf it's probably because you can't get kills any other way.

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      • Yup nerf the scrub gun can't wait

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        • So you're saying that Thorn should actually take skill to use? I'm for it

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        • They won't nerf thorn because it's balanced with red death and the last word kills nearly twice as fast as both those guns. If you don't believe me take the guns out and dry fire them.

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          • ^this^

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          • Great idea. At the very least I want the stability returned to its original stat and ideally reload speed reduced but keep the large mag or mag reduced and keep the reload speed. Refreshing to see a Nerf suggestion clearly coming from an actual seasoned thorn user.

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          • Yeah ruin the gun in pve. Great idea

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            • [quote][quote][quote][b]when somebody posts or comments about why thorn needs nerfing, simply copy and paste this message as a reality check to them[/b] [i]thank me later[/i] Hello, If you complain about the thorn and believe it needs nerfing, you are delusional. Your ego simply has to blame anything and everything but your lack of skills so you blame the thorn. If you think thorn ruins the game, go to college and some funding and create a game without the thorn in it. If you have earned a thorn and an enemy is wielding it then simply switch to your thorn and go one vs one with them. The skilled player will prevail. If you havent got a thorn to equip then i suggest you get good enough to complete the bounty. I have never seen so many delusional cry babies congregate in one corner of the internet than on here. If it was a game breaker you really think that the developers who show cased trials would let it slip? Theyd decimate every single one of you cry babies with or without it. The big dude with a beard who looked like something from hobbit was using a mida tool! A mida! And still pwning the testers. Triplewreck was using thorn and getting beat. Its a highly competitive game and you silly spoilt cry babies screaming for nerfs are ruining a game that is perfectly fine. Nerf your lack of skill and nerf your spoilt attitudes and get on with the game or go play cod where all guns are the same. I welcome tears, i welcome hate. If you are a crybaby you are bound to respond negatively to this. Big up all the real OGs who know how to handle a thorn user and dont cry and scream for nerfs and can shoot a fair one.[/quote] [/quote][/quote]

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              • Just let bungie do their thing where they look at what weapons are used the most. Then all hand cannons will get nerfed because of the thorn

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              • Return it to 6 rounds Replace snapshot with field scout Just my opinion.

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                • Yup join the fight "We tea bag thorns" green balls unite

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                • Edited by Shiloh Ivy: 5/3/2015 5:43:37 PM
                  [i]"Guys I have an idea!"[/i] *gets quiet* [i]"Instead of crying about one gun. Let's actually play better!"[/i] *Awkward silence* [i]"You know? Because it isn't the weapon, it's the wielder. If you die by Thorn, you got outplayed right?[/i] *awkward silence* [i]"Buff auto rifles!"[/i] *Applause*

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                  • heres me doing well with the gun before it was buffed. It never needed to be adjusted.

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                  • Thorn is fine as is. I like to consider myself a decent shot and I can't spam headshots with the thing like people claim to be an easy thing.

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                  • OP: This is the best analysis of the Thorn I`ve read. Kudos! The changes you suggest are both good and balanced. I hope Bungie reads this and uses the suggestions.

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                  • I don't think thorn is a problem. I rarely get killed by it. Vex and red death are both more consistent killers. I can usually win a dual against a thorn with either of them.

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                    • It's so stupid. Bungie will nerf thorn? Ok. Everybody will take TLW. Nerf TLW? Ok. Red death.

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                      • I think the best action (if needed) would be: Reduce mag to 8 (small decrease) Remove perfect balance perk and replace with armour piercing. Reduce stability by a small amount. Then... Increase AR damage. Reduce Pulse damage by a very small amount. Reduce shotgun range by a bit Increase Blink Cooldown slightly. Add small shoulder charge Cooldown (10s I think).

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                        • Edited by SlyRawnic: 5/3/2015 5:18:25 PM
                          Nerf it's RoF to match Hawkmoon's. There's no reason for thorn to shoot just as fast as TLW since its supposed to be a rapid fire cowboy-esque type handcannon. Either nerf it's tart of fire to match Hawkmoon's or reduce its RoF to whatever Bungie sees fit. Just my two cents on the matter.

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                        • Instead of what you proposed, I suggest this. Take away perfect balance from the tree and replace it with flared magwell. Also, replace Snapshot with Extended Mag.Then, make the weapon have the same reload speed and magazine size it had before. By doing this, Thorn users must choose between good damage at range by taking Send It or being able to play aggressively with the weapon by taking Flared Magwell for a faster reload. Or, players can stick with the Extended mag to have a Thorn with a 9 round magazine, although this wouldn't be smart because then you wouldn't be able to utilize the Final Round perk to its max potential with a 9 round magazine as opposed to having a 6 round magazine.

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                          • I'd like to see the dot disabled in crucible play, its pretty disatisfying on either side of the weapon.

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                          • Edited by forklift: 5/3/2015 4:59:02 PM
                            its not the best gun in the crucible...js. Imo last word or suros or even that one legendary auto rifle, vengence? i think? is better. Thorn is only good if youre at close/medium range and are playing with someone who has the reaction times of a 2 year old with a brain abnormality.

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                            • I agree, I loved thorn before it was buffed, and I still do. It should be toned down to where it has a 6 bullet mag, the original stability, and current reload. Also they should lower the RoF

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                            • Thank you! I love this!

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                            • That sounds pretty reasonable. When I first got it (prebuff) I didn't know about the headshot kills and such. And I don't think many did so it wasn't used like ever

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