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originally posted in: Evolution is a fact, but...
5/1/2015 9:37:28 PM
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Evolution is often called a "mechanism" of nature (that's how I was told in school anyways). So let's compare it to a mechanical watch. Just for fun. Take a mechanical watch apart, put all its pieces in a box, and shake that box. No matter how long or how many tines you shake that box, the watch will never come out put together and functioning properly. Is there a chance? Sure, as the basic principle of probability is that there is [i]always[/i] a chance. But the chances are so small that its basically impossible. Same with evolution. Is there a chance? Sure. There's also technically a chance I'll grow wings in 10 seconds and fly away. But the chances are so small that its basically impossible. Just a thought.
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    This explanation is the most retarded thing ever. Here's why: K, so by this logic, let's just say you do sprout your wings in 10 seconds. By your primitive thinking, evolution just "oops it happened". In reality it takes millions of years. So let's apply logic to this ridiculous saying shall we? This stupid saying takes a watch, something complex, and you put it into a box, the watch of course being in many separated parts. Then you shake it around, and you expect a watch to make itself again. Sounds pretty irrational, correct? That's because this stupid saying is putting something complex into question. A more accurate analogy would be to put a watch, at it's most basic form into a box and shake it until it becomes a watch again. So you know what a watches most basic form is? 2 gears and a hand that moves. That's only 3 parts. Seems pretty logical that those 3 parts would align just right to make a watch If given enough shakes, right? That's because that's how evolution works. It's something that takes millions of years. Not 10 seconds. Bacteria at some point, billions of years ago started forming into complex organisms little by little, until we arrive in present day. The 3 part watch is the bacteria and we are the complex watch. Do you understand?

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  • Oh yay, more spring cleaning.

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  • Darwin stated, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I confess, absurd in the highest degree...The difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection , though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered subversive of the theory."

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  • Whoa whoa whoa There can only be one sylux We can both share a suit that would be uncomfortable

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  • [quote]There can only be one sylux.[/quote]?

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  • Oh, his title.

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  • Lol. Well obviously I'm the older one, see my number is lower

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  • Edited by Britton: 5/1/2015 10:12:48 PM
    Unfortunately for your analogy, evolution is not just taking a bunch of stuff and shaking it around. Its active natural processes. Remember, the fact you are a unique individual is itself proof of evolution.

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  • Active process indeed. Similar to the scientific process...the reaction to circumstance observed. Interesting.

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  • [quote]Remember, the fact you are a unique individual is itself proof of evolution.[/quote]Explain.

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  • How about this. Go research it. And no, your creationist websites won't hold the answer. I mean actually research it using some scientific sources. If you genuinely do that, you'll learn why.

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  • Edited by SSG ACM: 5/2/2015 4:15:43 AM
    Translation: "I don't know."

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  • Translation: I having an evening with my family and don't have time to reteach you everything

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  • Edited by SSG ACM: 5/2/2015 2:46:32 PM
    Oh, I understand. This is what is missing: If you were to estimate how much time it took humanity to come into being from the same ancestors between humans and monkeys, how long would it take for you to soon to distinguish them as a new species? I don't just walk up to an orangutan and say, "That's one dumb, hairy human who has no capabilities of speaking. Let me go help and 'teach this man to fish.'" Accordingly, evolution requires time for every organism to develop, but what spawns the necessity for an instant but minuet, biological change that we all categorize as macro-evolution? In the OP, it explained how an insect scenario required the environmental hazards that were present to the ancestors to always be present in order to prevent the evidently cyclical process of micro-evolution from reversing. Humans are not able to live for hundreds of years; so the only thing we can do to attempt to prove evolution true through our scientific processes is to observe micro-evolution in action and point out that those results are substantiated evidence. However, the process is evidently cyclical. It is said by many evolutionists that the earth created a sundry array of gases to cool the earth so to make it prolific for bearing life. Scientifically, we know that organic and inorganic material alone can't have any reaction with each other in order to spawn or reproduce biological material of any kind. Then how did life begin, or better yet, where on Earth did an amoeba come from? Let's skip that question since all evolutionists appear to want to do is skip that fact. Alright, an amoeba is on Earth, somehow. Now, in order to either help stabilize the environment or the biological specimen itself, it must evolve. How? By going through a process that we call micro-evolution. Over millions to billions of years, that amoeba will genetically figure out to grow a limb. Then that second amoeba, who we know not where it came from, decides to help, or at least decides to either not exist and all biologically life as we know it was a hermaphrodite (possessing both sexes) in the first place, reproduces. This process repeatedly occurs over millions to billions of years in order for life to become stable on Earth. Correct? Question: If life was already at a state of environmental equilibrium, why would it need to evolve in the first place? To rid itself of mutations? Some evolutionists say that it is by this process micro-evolution drives macro-evolution on a profound scale, but by the dogma of "Natural Selection," that which is mutated is declined by its kind for procreation. Not to be at all offensive or conclusive on the welfare state of human choice, but I wish to ask every person individually: How many of you are willing to "fall in love" with a retarded human being? They are human and are given as much right as the next, but the lucky love life often bestowed upon such a person is rare and discouraged. It might by which the process of evolution uses to promote the biology of humans to a higher state up the evolutionary chain, which is strangely determined by nothing that evolutionists can explain. Environment? No. Mutations? We all know that it is by "Natural Selection" that we as biological organisms "evolve" very slowly quench mutations one genetic step at a time. Then what? What in this bloody world could have ever jump started our existence in the first place?

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  • [quote]If you were to estimate how much time it took humanity to come into being from the same ancestors between humans and monkeys, how long would it take for you to soon to distinguish them as a new species? I don't just walk up to an orangutan and say, "That's one dumb, hairy human who has no capabilities of speaking. Let me go help and 'teach this man to fish.'" [b]Species- In biology, a species is one of the basic units of biological classification and a taxonomic rank. A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring. Its a standard definition. [/b] Accordingly, evolution requires time for every organism to develop, but what spawns the necessity for an instant but minuet, biological change that we all categorize as macro-evolution? [b]no minuet change will classify as what creationists call macroevolution (that's not a science term by the way, but I'll use it for illustration.) Many many minuet changes across many many generations are required before what you would call micro evolution becomes macro. Its simply a scale of time. [/b] In the OP, it explained how an insect scenario required the environmental hazards that were present to the ancestors to always be present in order to prevent the evidently cyclical process of micro-evolution from reversing. [b]which is incorrect. Evolution doesn't reverse, it only goes forward. [/b] Humans are not able to live for hundreds of years; so the only thing we can do to attempt to prove evolution true through our scientific processes is to observe micro-evolution in action and point out that those results are substantiated evidence. [b]that is because as I pointed out once already, we've only been observing for the last 156 years of recorded history. It will take much longer observation before we are able to physically see and document the kind of change you're talking about. Which is why we use the fossil record. [/b] However, the process is evidently cyclical. It is said by many evolutionists that the earth created a sundry array of gases to cool the earth so to make it prolific for bearing life. Scientifically, we know that organic and inorganic material alone can't have any reaction with each other in order to spawn or reproduce biological material of any kind. Then how did life begin, or better yet, where on Earth did an amoeba come from? Let's skip that question since all evolutionists appear to want to do is skip that fact. [b]They skip it because its a separate field of science called abiogenesis. If you're interested in that subject we can discuss it, as chemists are making some amazing discoveries and are working toward a scientific theory for abiogenesis, but currently there isn't one, and like I said, its not part of evolution. [/b] Alright, an amoeba is on Earth, somehow. Now, in order to either help stabilize the environment or the biological specimen itself, it must evolve. How? By going through a process that we call micro-evolution. Over millions to billions of years, that amoeba will genetically figure out to grow a limb. [b]This is misleading, it doesn't go from an amoeba to having limbs. It would evolve a basic locomotion ability, not limbs.[/b] Then that second amoeba, who we know not where it came from, decides to help, or at least decides to either not exist and all biologically life as we know it was a hermaphrodite (possessing both sexes) in the first place, reproduces. [b]its reasonable that if the conditions to create life from none life exist, it would occur over at least a small area, which would create many many basic organisms, which are needed to start a population. [/b] This process repeatedly occurs over millions to billions of years in order for life to become stable on Earth. Correct? [b]no, because the basis for your question is incorrect. [/b] Question: If life was already at a state of environmental equilibrium, why would it need to evolve in the first place? To rid itself of mutations? [b]no, part of natural selection is competition between organisms, including organisms of the same species. The strong or more equipped to survive ones live, the less equipped do not. Mutations plays a background role. Sometimes they're good and help. Sometimes they're bad and hinder. Sometimes they're even benign. [/b] Some evolutionists say that it is by this process micro-evolution drives macro-evolution on a profound scale, but by the dogma of "Natural Selection," that which is mutated is declined by its kind for procreation. [b]natural selection isnt dogma, its an observation of how life behaves and interacts in nature. Everything in nature is constantly in competition with each other and as well as just trying to survive in the environment itself. Those equipped to survive have the best chance to survive, and as the overall environment changes so does what that means. That natural selection is what drives change. Also, you're incorrectly putting a negative context on mutation.[/b] Not to be at all offensive or conclusive on the welfare state of human choice, but I wish to ask every person individually: How many of you are willing to "fall in love" with a retarded human being? They are human and are given as much right as the next, but the lucky love life often bestowed upon such a person is rare and discouraged. It might by which the process of evolution uses to promote the biology of humans to a higher state up the evolutionary chain, which is strangely determined by nothing that evolutionists can explain. Environment? No. Mutations? [b]One of the aspects of natural selection is sexual selection. Basically, if you can't attract a mate, you don't pass on your genes. Its just another competitive aspect of natural selection.[/b] We all know that it is by "Natural Selection" that we as a biological organisms "evolve" very slowly quench mutations one genetic step at a time. Then what? What in this bloody world could have ever jump started our existence in the first place? [b]you're blending two fields of study again.[/b][/quote]

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  • Edited by SSG ACM: 5/2/2015 3:10:53 PM
    [quote][quote]Not to be at all offensive or conclusive on the welfare state of human choice, but I wish to ask every person individually: How many of you are willing to "fall in love" with a retarded human being? They are human and are given as much right as the next, but the lucky love life often bestowed upon such a person is rare and discouraged. It might by which the process of evolution uses to promote the biology of humans to a higher state up the evolutionary chain, which is strangely determined by nothing that evolutionists can explain. Environment? No. Mutations?[/quote] [b]One of the aspects of natural selection is sexual selection. Basically, if you can't attract a mate, you don't pass on your genes. Its just another competitive aspect of natural selection.[/b][/quote]Isn't evolution in the process of ridding all biology of such "impurities?" How can the evolutionary process continue in humans if humans stick to was likened generally? I'm aware that by your process of "Natural Selection" we "evolve," but such a process is anchored in an absolute fallacy because of the inability to explain the necessity of developing intelligence and choice since in all public school textbooks, this only affects the physical.

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  • Edited by Britton: 5/2/2015 5:30:16 PM
    No, evolutions goal is not to rid everything of impurities, its to pass on the genes of those able to survive, and not pass the ones the genes of those that can't. Because developing intelligence isn't a necessity. The only necessity is to survive and pass on your genes. Fortunately, that meant becoming intelligent for us. You're assuming that because things are a certain way, they must be that way, which is a faulty assumption.

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  • [quote]No, evolutions goal is not to rid everything of impurities, its to pass on the genes of those able to survive, and not pass the ones the genes of those that can't.[/quote]Then what determines which genes are to die and which ones are to "evolve" into a state that provides either different appearances or capabilities?

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  • Natural selection.

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  • Edited by SSG ACM: 5/4/2015 7:18:33 PM
    By ridding mutations or by encouraging physical advantages?

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  • [quote][quote]If you were to estimate how much time it took humanity to come into being from the same ancestors between humans and monkeys, how long would it take for you to soon to distinguish them as a new species? I don't just walk up to an orangutan and say, "That's one dumb, hairy human who has no capabilities of speaking. Let me go help and 'teach this man to fish.'"[/quote] [b]Species: (n) In biology, a species is one of the basic units of biological classification, and it is a taxonomic rank. A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring. Its a standard definition.[/b][/quote]And?

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  • Edited by Britton: 5/2/2015 5:25:56 PM
    That definition tells how to distinguish between one species and another. As for how long, we can only estimate.

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  • Edited by SSG ACM: 5/2/2015 7:24:53 PM
    I know what the word already means. What is the point in saying the definition? There isn't anything in that area of the argument that I'm against. Besides, my analogy was hypothetical. There is no good answer to my first question.

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  • Well you can go to the fossil record and get very rough estimates.

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  • Edited by SSG ACM: 5/4/2015 7:20:27 PM
    The fossil record shows evidence of only micro-evolution (variations of the same species), but it does not show either branches of at least one species or the high count of transitional fossils for even one species. If evolution does indeed operate over millions to billions of years, is their not supposed to be over at least a million (which there isn't) transitional fossil records per species? Evolutionists claim that the process of evolution is in fact very slow and very minuet, but all atheistic archeologists can find are only an acclaimed few and state, "These few (not many) transitional fossils tell us that [insert name of species] have evolved on planet Earth for over millions of millennia." Even Darwin doubted as to the origin of these small minuet changes that were acclaimed to be caused by the present environmental hazards he assumed to be affecting their biology, saying, "To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I confess, absurd in the highest degree...The difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection , though insuperable by our imagination, should not be considered subversive of the theory" (On the Origin of Species, Chapter 6). The study of abiogenesis (the original evolution of life or living organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances) doesn't even have a conclusion as to the manifestation of organic life from non-organic material, or even a conclusion as to the necessity and development of intelligence (for only one species) and complexity.

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