*I'm sure some of these numbers are fudged due to calcs being off after the 29th update.
Hv Burst Pulses: .8 TTK
[u]High Im Pulses: .67 TTK (No kill requirement)[/u]
Adaptive Pulses w/ 187 weap & E Honing: .6 TTK (Requires some setup)
*Lightweight Pulses: .8 TTK .53 w/ Kill Clip
[u]Rapid Fire Pulses: .73 TTK (No kill requirement)[/u]
[u]Aggressive Burst Pulses: .73 TTK (No kill requirement)[/u]
140 Hand Cannons: .87 TTK
Precision Scouts w/ Box Breathing: .67 TTK
Lets also mention the fact that body shot TTK on Scouts is the worst in the game in addition to flinch.
Precision instrument required all headshots to be effective, if you relied on body shots, you were pretty much dead. Secondly, no one even used this archetype, but I have examples above that get similar TTK times with flexibility to miss headshots and not be penalized for it.
Pulses and hand cannons have more flexibility and consistency across the board in this sandbox and thats why they are the most used weapons in the game in PVP.
I loved this update but having to actually toss an archetype in the waste bin because the only thing it had going for it was nerfed really sucks ngl.
Back to pulses it is.. again...
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PI on Rapid Fires was broken. Infinite range and basically the fastest TTK in the game. No downides. No caveats. All this for 1 perk and 0 stat investment. If that's not broken, nothing is.
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[quote]*I'm sure some of these numbers are fudged due to calcs being off after the 29th update. Hv Burst Pulses: .8 TTK [u]High Im Pulses: .67 TTK (No kill requirement)[/u] Adaptive Pulses w/ 187 weap & E Honing: .6 TTK (Requires some setup) *Lightweight Pulses: .8 TTK .53 w/ Kill Clip [u]Rapid Fire Pulses: .73 TTK (No kill requirement)[/u] [u]Aggressive Burst Pulses: .73 TTK (No kill requirement)[/u] 140 Hand Cannons: .87 TTK Precision Scouts w/ Box Breathing: .67 TTK Lets also mention the fact that body shot TTK on Scouts is the worst in the game in addition to flinch. Precision instrument required all headshots to be effective, if you relied on body shots, you were pretty much dead. Secondly, no one even used this archetype, but I have examples above that get similar TTK times with flexibility to miss headshots and not be penalized for it. Pulses and hand cannons have more flexibility and consistency across the board in this sandbox and thats why they are the most used weapons in the game in PVP. I loved this update but having to actually toss an archetype in the waste bin because the only thing it had going for it was nerfed really sucks ngl. Back to pulses it is.. again...[/quote] #buffscouts
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3 RepliesI feel the same that 260's weren't a problem. What really has surprised me so far is that with the dev notes we saw some nerfs to HC's as well, I think the 120's. Many complained that HC's were really hurt by these changes. I'm not a HC user, but so far in my experience, HC's somehow got stronger than ever. So far this weapon sandbox feels worse than what we had last week.
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5 RepliesThey were one of the few weapons that with a single perk and no additional set up or kill could drastically change their ttk. Now they require only a little over 100 weapon stat investment to 4 tap, and you're complaining about them being trash and having to scrap them? Meanwhile all the rest you mentioned, their placements in crucible in general ascwell: * Aggressive bursts can 2 burst, not sure if it really is 0.8, but basically no one uses them because they're less suited for the ranges lightweights can compete and require perfect crit accuracy. There are none in the top 100 * High impact pulses require perfect crit accuracy, have the lowest aim assist of all pulse rifles, and have lower stability than most, no one uses these. There are none in the top 100. * Adaptives as you stated require a lot of investment to weapon stat and a specific perk for a 2 burst and still most can't do so * Rapid fires should have one of the fastest base ttks because of their more limited range and the fact they're harder to keep on heads. There's only 1 in the top 100. * 140 hand cannons require perfect crit accuracy for one of the slowest ttks in the game and so long as their recoil forces the gun to block sight of the target in any capacity and cause the sights to disappear every shot, I'd say it's fair. Not to mention how missing even 1 shot on a hand cannon is more punishing than any other primary except bows. Basically all with the exception of Ace have stacked stats, having 80-90 range on the low end and 60-70 stability before performance enhancing perks like Keep Away or Slideways which players always have. There are 7 in the top 100, and most users who are threats are no doubt cheaters or tryhards indistinguishable from such. * Precision scouts still need to wait for boxed breathing to proc, so that's time they're spending unable to see their radar and just hard scoping down a lane or into a wall. And if it doesn't land a head shot, that ttk goes from 0.67 to 1 second. There's 1 in the top 100. And plenty of people used 260s before their damage got nerfed, just most used them exclusively with precision instrument or kill clip due to their 0.93 base ttk, and those are limited to like 5. But if you want to ask why they nerfed them, I could and STILL ask the same of various other weapons and perks. Why does Memento Mori still suffer a damage nerf that was only given for One Eyed Mask enabling 2 taps despite OEM not buffing damage any more? Why is Thorn's catalyst still nerfed after all the stat monsters that came later and how it got nerfed like 4 times over in EOF? Why does Magnificent Howl still require effort to get the bonus damage when they enabled multiple other 180s to 3 tap with the same effort? Why does Last Word still suffer so many of the nerfs it got when 2/3 of it's shots are always ghost bullets or not going where you're clearly aiming? I could go on
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This has always been Bungies big problem, and they never, ever admitted it, or took suggestions on it. It's been common discussion for years! They do NOT want you to play the game you want to play. As soon as it looked like you were enjoying yourself, they nerfed you! They insist AFTER they have your money, that you WILL play the damn game the way THEY want you to play it, or don't play. Then suddenly, players decided to take their advice, and stopped playing. And Bungies's response? Waaahhh! It's not us! It's the players fault for not accepting that we know what is best for them! And promptly doubled down! And.... here we are!
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Edited by iCypher: 6/14/2026 2:29:53 AMThey literally made the best of all metas into the final update. After not playing for 300 days and coming back......PvP on PC still feels like trash and controller on PC are still WAY to OP. This is why majority of PvP games on PC stop being played for games that dont cater to input devices.
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13 RepliesBrother I love 260 scouts. I've loved them long before precision instrument. With precision instrument they were busted and everyone always used precision instrument. You had a weapon with endless range, great stickiness, and a lightning fast ttk for only one perk with no kill required. The nerf was necessary. 260s are still fun. I love my trustee with surplus and opening shot as well as my contingency plan with surplus and elemental capacitor.
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4 RepliesThe whole archetype suffers because of one Trials weapon
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Oh no! I didn't know that! WTH!
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I feel like snipers are flinching like crazy, hard to want to pick them against pulses
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6 Replies260 scouts really weren't an issue. They easily get outranged by any other scout archetype and had very little forgiveness to get the good TTK while using PI. Miss one shot, or deal with someone peek shooting long enough to lose PI and they didn't work. Now I'm living in an emp rift to get the TTK and more ability regen so it feels like it did before the update. It's slowed my gameplay down considerably, because I'm usually a highly mobile player.