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Edited by Wes:
7/29/2022 11:25:03 PM
84
I like the Matchmaking Ideas in the TWAB
We have tried strict SBMM and we have tried CBMM. Neither worked. (See post here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/260961555/0/0).
Both had issues, whether it be connection, playing with lower skilled friends, etc.
Because of this, I have been asking for something more sophisticated for a long time. Loose SBMM and future fireteam size preferential matchmaking are two middle ground ideas, and I'm happy Bungie is trying something new and moderate, and I'm happy they had the foresight to give themselves ways to iterate the search criteria in real time.
I know the whole "SBMM vs CBMM" debate is gonna ruffle some feathers, but let's keep it civil and take a minute to realize that this is a middle ground that [i]might work[/i].
And if it does, more people play. And I don't know about you guys, but I want more people to play.
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It will be a lag fest, no doubt about it. Half the lobbies i get are already borderline unplayable due to both crossplay lag and what seems like a complete lack of geolocation in matchmaking. If this mess that we have now has connection quality as a priority, i can’t wait to see how bad it gets when they start limiting who i can be matched with based on stats, it can only get worse.
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33 RepliesEdited by GIVE EM HELLBOY: 7/31/2022 2:21:22 PMGood ol SBMM. The future of... 1. Rigging matches to enforce a W/L criteria 2. Getting punished for playing with friends 3. Getting punished for winning 4. Getting rewarded for losing 5. Terrible connections 6. The destruction of PvP as a whole This cycle has been repeated before. Call of Duty, Halo Infinite, etc... SBMM does nothing but destroy the competitive integrity of crucible. You arent being put up against people of similar skill at all, far from it. You will be put up against greater odds or significantly lesser odds to appease the algorithm. I guess for all the people who dont want to improve this is great news to have an algorithm that will rig the match for you to win. For anyone with competitive integrity this is a travesty.
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1 ReplyIt actually sounds like Bungie understands the issue on the player experience as a lot of that they said hit home for me. Like jumping into a match and regardless of how good you do yo I can’t control the win and you lost before the first shot was fired. Love the changes proposed.
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3 RepliesLet's just make sth clear - new players have ZERO chance of a good time in Crucible now. Bellow zero! Bellow average players as well. They just constantly match guys they have zero chance of winning against. No matter the excuse, this makes no sense! It's high time they at least tried to do sth about it. Everyone should have at least somewhat of a chance in there. Currently, that is not the case.
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I’m down, honestly. The team balancing atm in 6s ain’t fun
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Only people who disagree are classy restoration hunter mains change my mind.
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Hear hear. Big fan of the TWAB. Matchmaking can be better—let’s give Bungie the space and time to try this plan and learn from it.
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[quote]We have tried strict SBMM and we have tried CBMM. Neither worked. (See post here: https://www.bungie.net/en/Forum/Post/260961555/0/0). Both had issues, whether it be connection, playing with lower skilled friends, etc. Because of this, I have been asking for something more sophisticated for a long time. Loose SBMM and future fireteam size preferential matchmaking are two middle ground ideas, and I'm happy Bungie is trying something new and moderate, and I'm happy they had the foresight to give themselves ways to iterate the search criteria in real time. I know the whole "SBMM vs CBMM" debate is gonna ruffle some feathers, but let's keep it civil and take a minute to realize that this is a middle ground that [i]might work[/i]. And if it does, more people play. And I don't know about you guys, but I want more people to play.[/quote] Best Twab in 6 years…
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I’m a decent controller/console player.. can hold my own most times I guess, but some people do some crazy -blam!- in PVP and you know they’re not playing legit. If I can be separated from those guys I will definitely play more.
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Edited by Niinja Slayer: 7/31/2022 12:37:20 AMYep, been talking about loose SBMM for the better half of a year, glad it was their decided middle ground. Let’s be real, lag won’t change at all, people will still blame the system for things that can’t change. But it will be a good change nonetheless.
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19 RepliesUnfortunately, this still really sacrifices the experience of outlier players. Not commenting on if this is better for the health of the game as a whole or not, but as it stands outlier players (both good and bad) are in for a rough time. It seems like bungies goal is to keep the maximum skill variance of a match under 200 ish. (note that they said 200 skill variance means about a 75% confidence that the higher skill player will win the engagement, and at 400 its 90+% and the lower skill player basically needs to get lucky) What does this mean? This means that more than likely, bungie will start to choose players within +/-200 skill rating of you, and use the first pick more than +/-100 to set the upper or lower bounds. EX: if you are 612 skill, and bungie starts picking players: 612 (you) 580 440 Bounds set at 440/640 (200 max skill variance) The remaining players would have to be in these bounds. So how does that affect outliers? A 800 skill player (very high skill) would only be able to match as low as 600 skill theoretically, and more likely would have bounds for a lobby set at 700-900 on average. The same can be said for -800 skill players but with negative values. That means that OPTIMALLY if an outlier player is the upper most bound of their lobby, (I.E. 800 player matching as low as 600) they will have access to MAYBE 5% of the playerbase. Currently, connection quality is marginal at best with access to 100% of the playerbase. So with a 20x reduction in pool size, outlier players (new lights and sweats alike) are more than likely going to experience horrible connection quality and long matchmaking times. Which seems to me like it will harm the New light experience. New lights will go from being fodderized by better players, To waiting 10 minutes in queue for a laggy match that will make them wonder if the game launched in 2004 and died in 2014. Personally I believe that for the sake of growing the playerbase, new players can rationalize away getting stomped by saying "i just need to improve" But new players cant rationalize away "wow I waited 10 minutes in queue for a lobby where everybody teleports? Did I accidentally queue up Black ops on my xbox 360? This game is dead"
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7 RepliesYou really think bungie is doing something good? Let’s be real they say one thing and they fail at it. They suck at their jobs and they need to stop making games cuz this game is turning into into the back of the map campers. They ain’t fixing nothing
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1 ReplyI do dislike the lobbys where I am stuck on a team of casual solo queue'ers and I have to sweat my -blam!- off vs a 5 or six stack. But I am a bit worried about play times, had three 5+min ques last night in casual control on a Friday night.......
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4 Replies[quote]but let's keep it civil and take a minute to realize that this is a middle ground that [i]might work[/i]. [/quote] [url=https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/middle-ground]Your Logical Fallacy Is: Middle Ground[/url]
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Wtf took so long?
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3 RepliesThey need to forget about lobby balancing and focus on fixing the sandbox interaction between players. Destiny's PvP feels less like a PvP so much as it does a gimmicky cheese arena filled with OHK guns ran full time, janky movement encouraged (both defensively and offensively) by the overly-generous hit registration of pretty much all weapons, TTK power creep of primaries to help them keep up with special weapons and aforementioned movement, third party software abuse running basically unchecked, etc. Crucible's problems with matchmaking seems trivial in comparison to these things. Player combat in general needs an overhaul.
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Haven’t read it, but it sounds alright to me. Can’t wait to test out the new system.
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There's always going to be someone that has a beef with the system in play. A lot of it is their own ignorance on how things work, their own performance and commitment to learning the sandbox as changes come. We all know we went through this pattern twice and no matter what we had people complain about it. Sbmm just means you're going to be potentially placed with people around your skill level a bit more often. It means you may have slight increases in games where you're facing people with the same or similar skill level. If the player begins to perform better, they're going to realize that they left their little safe space and complain that PVP just got a little harder for them. Higher skilled players will want to start killing their own KD so they can be placed in a lower bracket to have an easier time. Others can just make dummy accounts and just use that to stomp lower skilled players. Bungie has still not commented on how they're going to do better at assessing lag and cheating....(although lag is inevitable, they still do not wish to invest money in more servers like the square enix team for final fantasy XIV) When this system is implemented, we know there are going to just be people pissing and moaning about it. It's going to be the same rigmaroo all over again.
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Tbh the reason I’m optimistic is their obvious attention to transparency this time around. I’m open to trying this system even if it doesn’t work out so long as they are actually clear in their goals and their approach, and so far that seems to be what they’re doing. What I absolutely cannot stand is matchmaking changes under the hood that the community has to randomly learn about when it ruins the experience (see the recent Halo Infinite matchmaking shitshow for an example).
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I am happy for everyone who is hyped about the twqb. But I doubt that it will change anything in general like in all the years before. Honestly and I speak mostly for myself and a view friends I always played with that the PvP community is not balanced at all due to the lack of players enjoying playing pvp. Bungie's priority must be to gain more players in pvp and to try to keep those. The sbmm is one way but not the major fix. To be fair and in my opinion it would also a good idea to have the earned competitive gear only allowed to be equiped in the specific game mode category you earned it from. That would prevent frustration and jealousy. Also an another idea would be to limit the gear availability in a daily or weekly rotating system.. Just some thoughts.
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The problem stems from ignorance. Not yours: the ppl wanting CBMM on P2P infrastructure. Every time I brought up SSD helps, they argue that it only affects load time until they look up how P2P operates
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The idea they have pitched is by far the best I’ve seen from them in years and it’s a shame that they weren’t able to implement it sooner in the game’s lifespan. That said, I’m looking forward to the fireteam mm finally getting them sorted out as I have seen some very lopsided matches from clans and the like at times that straight up make me want to go into Comp instead.
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7 RepliesI want catalyst based matchmaking. The more you unlock the more you get matched with PvEr’s playing PvP. Hahaha
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Just sad they have people celebrating adding something every other game shipped with and they are taking a year to even add the important part which is preventing stacks from stomping pugs. Not to mention most of the problems could be addressed by simply adjusting team balancing. Right now the game piles the -blam!- players on 1 team and makes it a miserable experience. Fixing this would be very simple and provide instant improvement. Yet we have to wait entire seasons to see some half baked system added. Anyone celebrating this is an idiot.
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I also like what I read. They definitely need to work on making matches fair and lobby balancing IMO. I am glad they at least talked about it and knowing they need to improve what they currently have. Will be interesting to see how well it work, and or if they stick to their plan over the next few seasons. Hoping for a better game and set up compared to what we have now. Definitely needs some work.
