So right now the general consensus is that nothing manacles are just a lackluster version of contraverse hold. Now why is that? Lets look at the perks you get for contraverse hold: Resilience while charging grenade. Grenade energy ON HIT And for nothing manacles: Gain extra charge for scatter grenades Gain tracking for scatter grenades. So the main issue here is that tracking for scatter grenades does not provide a noticeable benefit. Now, I do think that it is a COOL benefit, so i dont think it should be removed. And then having the ability to hold two grenades is only helpful if you can stack a second grenade before you use the first one. However, a lot of warlock builds are revolved around building ability power and immediately using those abilities. This means that BOTH perks don't seem to provide much of a benefit for either build. In destiny 1, you could quickly get two grenades when you killed enemies with grenades which made it a lot more useful. Taking this into account, the only reason contraverse hold is so good is for the single reason that it gives grenade energy back. I think a good thing to slightly buff nothing manacles would be to gives grenade energy on kills when using scatter grenade, OR to double or even triple the amount of scatter prohectiles, with other grenade building perks, i think this could allow you to take advantage of having the two grenades. Thank you for reading this far, and i hope this doesnt get buried!