Please watch his video before you comment. He states several times he hated vanilla destiny 2.

I think you need to read my post. I was speaking about [i]CammyCakes[/i] liking Vanilla D2 and having called and defended the changes. I’m well-aware that TV hated them.

- OP shows a video of TV. - You say Bungie did that once in Vanilla D2 - TV hated vanilla D2. Then what's the point of bringing up Cammy to attack a video of TV? When the only thing they have in common is they are streamers/content creators/youtubers/whatever? Please attack the video only on the points he makes. If you don't like them fine. I don't like everything either. But there is no point in putting every streamer on a big pile of streamers and therefore regard all their opinions as garbage because they are all considered business owners.

[quote][u][b]I’m sorry but I don’t think anyone at Bungie understands pvp in a competitively balanced level than people like Cammy or CoolGuy or TV.[/b] [/u]They play pvp for hours everyday at high levels, the people at Bungie only play pvp during their work hours let alone if they even play D2 at all.[/quote] If you're going to second-guess me, you really should read the ENTIRE post that I'm responding to. My post was directed at THIS comment. Not the video. CammyCakes (and the Sweaties) were fierce advocates of the PvP-oriented changes that were made for vanilla D2. Cammy---to his credit----was one of the few content creators who had the personal INTEGRITY to stand by the changes he had called for, even when it became clear how wildly unpopular they were. And I made it clear in my post when I'm talking about CammyCakes, and when I'm talking about TV specifically. The larger point that I was making was that Vanilla D2 was a love-letter to the elite PvP players in the D1 community, and effort to turn Crucible into an e-sport. That effort failed. The love letter got rejected....and it nearly destroyed the entire franchise. IN fact, the game is still trying to recover from this. So Bungie really doesn't need to stick that fork into the wallsocket a SECOND time....or think that doing it a second time will get a different result than the first time.

Even if Cammy liked Vanilla D2 back in the days.... So what? How is that related to his opinions right now? He made several videos talking about how he disliked sunsetting because all his farmed rolls are going away. Clearly showing he likes to toy with different builds/rolls. Don't forget Vanilla D2 was almost 3 years ago. People can change their opinions.

Asked and answered already. Its related to the fact that he doesn't speak for the community as a whole. He speaks for himself and a tiny minority of players who have already been shown to have preferences that are WAY out of touch with what the average player wants....and the game is STILL trying to recover from the damage that was done in catering to his (and others like him) wishes. Bungie already tried what the OP is asking for and the result was a DISASTER. The Community Summit made the same mistake on the PVE side of the game....and it was a **smaller** DISASTER, as all the changes THOSE content creators made eventually had to be removed as well. Because the community at large hated them too. Why don't you stop asking me questions that I already addressed in the FIRST post you didn't read?

EVERY single player doesn't speak for the community as a whole! What's even the point of feedback forums if the answer to every single post is "You don't speak for the entire community. Dismissed." God, I hate it when people automatically throw advice from streamers in the garbage simply because they are streamers. OP names Cammy, CoolGuy and TV. You hate Cammy apparently and how he pushed Destiny 2 in the direction of static rolls, 4v4, slow TTK. Love to see some video about that, but okay. Never mind. But then forget about Cammy. What don't you like about TV's suggestions? Don't forget the title of this thread is "Great pvp feedback from TV".

I stand with Cammy’s stance that D2Y1 PvP was good. It definitely needed some tweaks, but overall felt good (on PC.) On console it was trash due to 30fps, low FOV, and massive recoil. I know because I played both The current iteration of PvP is a joke. - 9 out of 12 guardians in a lobby are using Hunter - No one wants to engage in primary gunfights, and they hide behind their special weapon - To add to point #1, since most guardians are hunter, most primary engagement end in a draw because Hunters weasel out of ever gunfight with their dodge on a 10 second cool down - Elimination game modes are stale because 3 guardians are always hardscoping with their sniper. Map movement is not possible -Mountaintop While I think that the special weapon changes had benefitted PvE, it was a detriment to PvP. The ttk changes (to make it faster) would’ve fixed a lot of the problems in vanilla D2. I’ll end with this. If the PvP was actually good, it would have a player base. People would watch it on twitch. But people don’t. The small community that enjoys this garbage version of PvP are the only ones, and it will stay this way if Bungie doesn’t change their philosophy on PvP.

It is amazing to me how little primary gunfights we see on console. Players will do everything in their power to avoid using a primary and that includes just running away lol.

I loved the Y1 D2 crucible. That’s just me though.

...and that's fine. Taste is subjective, and no one should have to defend what they like in games. Its just that that version of the Crucible was not what the majority wanted. Vanilla D2, imo, was best summed up this way: "(Vanilla) Destiny 2 wasn't a bad game. It was just a bad **Destiny** game." IOW, it wasn't a bad game. It just wasn't the game that the Destiny community ---as a group---wanted.

You have a point but you didn't watch the video.

The playerbase plummeted because bungie is uncreative. Not because of double primary or whatever.

https://youtu.be/-Ng0WImoeEw Slayerage would like a word with you. Even I didn't fully appreciate how big of a problem the weapon system was until I saw this video and considered what he had to say. Jon Weisnewski (Weapons Design Lead at the time) had given the game away in a pre-release interview, but I had failed to understand what he was implying. The whole point of Double Primary was to NERF the damage output of our Guardians. In PVP this put all OHK weapons behind the "power weapon" wall. With the goal of making Crucible play more like Halo. In PVE the system put all "high-burst/high sustained damage weapons" behind that same power weapon wall....and effectively created a DPS-ceiling that players quickly hit their heads against. That wall wasn't noticeable in strikes and pub events. But the moment you tried to raid or run Nightfalls where were rigidly timed (DPS checked) back then....you noticed it. Plus, back then, when the timer ran out you were booted back to orbit and failed. So raids became tediously difficult....and NF were an exercise in trying to figure out jsut how much of the content you had to RUN PAST in order to stay within the timer. (You got rewarded for NOT shooting things in a shooter). The system was such a disaster that: 1. It forced you to play in very stilted and one-dimensional ways. Everyone chiseled away at mobs and majors with "Two s*ck-*ss weapons....." While saving their power ammo and supers for bosses. You still see the evidence of being forced to play that way in pub events three years later. Everyone still does it. 2. It made NF tediously difficult and not-very-fun...and some raid encounters were literally impossible to complete if you didn't have power ammo. Which forced Bungie to eventually have to add raid banners so people wouldn't have to keep WIPING in an effort to force NPCs to drop heavy ammo so they could make a legitimate run at completing it. So yes, the player base did plummet (in large part) due to the impact that dual primary had on the game. Which is why Bungie RETURNED special weapons to the game in Y2.

Again... Lack of creativity. Have you ever played borderlands? Some of tbe best weapons in the franchise are weapons that would be considered primaries in destiny. Smgs, pistols, ARs etc. And was that his "this is a suck ass weapon" video? Lost respect for him with that one. He struck me as someone unfamiliar with how the game works

Double primary had an absolute factor as to why the game plummeted. Let’s not start pretending it didnt