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Edited by suggestedpigeon: 4/19/2016 12:23:24 AM
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Trials is Now Pay / Beg to Win: Remove Scorecard-Based Matchmaking

Disclaimer: I don't have the kind of data that Bungie would have on this so I have to work with basic stats and probability as well as personal experience. Please bump to keep the thread alive. Even if Bungie doesn't respond with any kind of "got it, moving to the wishlist" I would love to see the numbers for lighthouse attainment percentages from year one to year two. TL;DR: Bungie's change to matchmaking in year two to favor scorecard ranking has had a crippling effect on this gametype by widening the skill gap to such an extreme level that many now have to beg for carries when they really didn't need to in year one. I understand Bungie's reasoning. This is a competitive mode. It makes sense to challenge players with matches of similar skill and similar passage wins. But changing matchmaking from year one has created more problems than its solved: 1: [b]Scorecard Based Matchmaking Increases the Skill Gap Far Beyond What is Necessary[/b] In year one, matches were pure connection based (or at least it tried it's hardest). Having pure connection with no skill based matchmaking involved means that you were likely to face players of all skill levels and it was close to random who you would fight. Sometimes you would face people with .5 k/ds and sometimes you would fight gods who wipe the floor with you. This gives players the best shot of reaching the lighthouse. Because as long as you were dead average or slightly higher there was a >/=50% chance you would be of a higher skill than your opponents since they are effectively randomly selected. Go to year two and things change. I [i]believe[/i] that they removed SBMM from trials and focused more heavily on scorecard based matchmaking. Scorecard based matchmaking inherently makes it nightmarish to get to the lighthouse. Instead of connection based matchmaking which effectively randomizes the players you face scorecard based means that you face players who have the same number of wins that you do. This is why the games are reletively the same until about seven wins in and suddenly it's a Sweat Fountain of Pain. The increased skill gap comes into play because for the god mode crucible elite this effectively didn't do much (neither does it for the extremely low end players who never had a chance anyways) but for the average, slightly above, and slightly below average players this is the difference between taking a couple passages to go flawless and [i]never going flawless without getting carried[/i] which leads me to: 2 [b]The Widened Skill Gap has Dramatically Increased the Amount of Actual Pay to Win in Destiny[/b] I would say for every scumbag selling flawless runs there's about 5+ good Samaritan high skilled players willing to help. But the fact that this exists and has only increased because of Bungie's decisions is sickening and it needs to be stopped. It's simple supply and demand. There is now a heightened demand for flawless runs because of the widened skill gap in trials matchmaking. So if you're a high skill player who does trials runs in their sleep this is now the prime time to make money. On the tame end you have Twitch raffles. You see these everywhere: every two bit streamer hyping their stream "Just follow my channel and watch the stream and you'll be entered into a raffle for a carry." Not that terrible. I've done this because there's no other option but I still lost at win 8 so go figure. Then there's the bigger, more popular twitch steamers who also do raffles but for subscribers who pay money or at least heavily weighted toward players who pay money. More scummy because you now have to actually pay money instead of whatever the guy makes in ad revenue. Do not do this. Do not buy into this system there are plenty of decent players willing to help you out. I believe this should be able to be reported and the banhammer should be dusted off as a warning. Then there's literally pay to win trials sites where I think the rate is like $60+ (Edit: just checked, their going rate is [b]$86 -blam!-ing dollars[/b])to get a flawless trials run. And I'm sure they won't just take your money and run. Positive. Seriously don't do this. You have to be insane to actually do that. Ban these people. Ban their consoles. Ban their IPs. I'm serious. If even half of you who got up in arms about sterling treasure being pay to win got up in arms about paid trials carries (which is objectively pay to win) it would end abruptly. The best thing that Bungie can do is start banning those who offer paid trials carries but more importantly cut the demand down by reversing their decision on scorecard based matchmaking.

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  • Wow. This is an actual result of our weakened participation trophy culture. To be the best beat the best. If someone is good enough to keep going flawless while carrying a scrub or two then they earned the right to keep doing it. Your solution is that things should be made easier so you can feel like you're better than you really are. Rub some dirt on your wounds, walk it off, strap it up (maybe you could strap one on), and get back out there and be better. I know you won't understand all of that because you've been taught that showing up is enough to win. It's not and "there's no crying in Trials."

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    • If they are allowing real money traders to exploit trials, they might as well allow trading of items

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      • My solution is three parts. 1. Make the LH a permanent unlock once you get to 7 wins regardless of losses. Make the chest require a weekly key you get from turning in a 9-0 card. 2. Match players based on scorecard AND amount of flawless victories. 3. Add a vendor to the LH that sells non adept trials gear. This will make it more fun for the casuals and more competitive for the competitive, also it will open up the LH at least so players can get their Grimoire card.

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        • Edited by PandaPapa146: 4/20/2016 1:08:26 AM
          [b][i]In its current format...[/i][/b] [b]ToO = Stomp or be Stomped [/b] [u][i][b]No thanks.[/b][/i][/u] [b][i]Change the format...[/i][/b] Cumulative 9 wins over time No resets to zero until reach L'house Same rewards Tiered zones* - Green / Amber /Red Tiered rewards 'Carries' no longer an issue [b][i]Resulting in...[/i][/b] Increased participation Fun restored Play to one's desired level A win:win no-brainer [b][i][u]Yes please![/u][/i][/b] Edited to add: *Tiered zones Green = Zero L'house wins Amber = 1-3 L'house wins Red = 4+ L'house wins

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          • Get gud stop whining

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          • I think this is exactly how Trials should be. This is supposed to be the holy grail of Crucible. Not just anyone should be able to get to the lighthouse. If anything should be skill-based, it should be trials. Your 7/8/9-0 matches should be nightmarish, it should actually be difficult to get to the lighthouse. If people want to pay to get carried, and you don't like that, you should be endorsing SBMM in ToO, anything to hinder that person's chances, right? And the person doing the carrying has the additional weight to carry. Sounds like a win/win situation to me.

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            • Edited by merlynbrit: 4/20/2016 7:30:15 PM
              I just do Trials for the bounties. My group sucks, but we can get the gold tier rewards while experiencing a game mode in which we wouldn't ordinarily choose to participate. If that makes you jealous, the fault doesn't lie with Bungie. They've opened the Trials to more players. The skilled still get a Lighthouse visit, while the rest of us get a piece of gear.

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              • The players have no one to blame but themselves. Scrubs actually PAYING real world money for a [i]chance[/i] at getting carried by some streamer. It's bloody sad is what it is. And then to have the nerve to call the payments "donations." Get real. This is worse than the RNG guns Activision is selling in BO3 with the Black Market chests. The desperation is real.

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                • Edited by lynk: 4/26/2016 7:40:15 AM
                  I normally try to be civil on posts such as this, but I don't have time at the moment. So I'll keep it short and unsweet :) Lighthouse is not for everyone. It is for the best of the best. The Men In Black of the crucible. It is a crown that only the very skilled should be able to wear. And Bungie has stated this many times. It isn't meant as a reward for any low skilled scrub off the street. Are you not skilled enough to get to Lighthouse? Then you don't deserve to wear the crown. Git gud, earn the crown. Then you can (civilly) look down on all the Guardians who are not worthy of the Lighthouse. Good night. #TitanMasterRace

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                  • I received a message yesterday with individual prices for going flawless! £10 for 1 character-£15 for 2 etc. If bungie wanna make more money-maybe they should capitalise on it? Lolz. Ppl need to be careful cus I'm sure someone's gonna end up being scammed out of their money? There's a real dark undertone forming in this community now.

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                    • Edited by J Stevensontown: 4/26/2016 3:44:32 AM
                      I effortlessly went flawless earlier with two friends. Eat ur <3 out [spoiler]for free & fun[/spoiler]

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                      • Bump

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                        • Just remove pvp all together problem solved.

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                          • Bump

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                          • Nah, if bungie did this then Triplewreck would lose followers and they don't want that to happen.

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                            • Edited by Impurity41: 4/24/2016 6:03:55 PM
                              I'm not sure about this but isn't it illegal for people to make money off of another companies product? Also another thing I might be wrong about: don't you need a license to run a business. I've seen trials carries for major bucks like 100, 200 bucks. Isn't making that kind of dough without a license technically illegal because at that point your little "donation" is a business? I could be wrong about all of these. No hate please

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                              • Well really I just wish i played trials more year 1. Out of 3 cards we made 9-2. Year 2 out of 40 or so have barely been able to reach 8-2.

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                                • Bump

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                                • They just need to make it once you've gone flawless you can't play trials on that class until the next week. And that means once your card has a flawless victory on it, not once they've been to the lighthouse. If the only point to going to the lighthouse more than once is to take people's money then lock them out until the next weekend. If they're that good their bounties should be done before they hit the lighthouse and end of match rewards are crap.....no point in grinding it out.

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                                  • Bump

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                                  • This doesnt bother me as much as bungies lackluster attempt to ban lag switchers and network manipulaters in trials. Cant tell you how many times I've gone 8-0 and get paired with a whole team of redbars and then the disconnections start.

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                                  • Bumpitybump.

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                                  • Banning is really extreme lol

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                                  • Bump

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                                  • Bump because this is entire truth.

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                                  • If players choose to have business between each other what does bungie have to do with it?

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