[quote]I don't think I even need to ask if it's "just me" because this is pretty damn obvious. In 2.1, Bungie was supposed to increase ADS stability for fusion rifles, and decrease hipfire stability. However, after installing the patch, my Panta Rhei has [i]drastically[/i] more recoil when firing in ADS than it did yesterday. Hipfire also has more recoil, which is expected. But Bungie either decreased ADS stability by mistake, or simply reduced stability overall. I desperately hope this is a bug and not an intentional change. Using fusion rifles outside shotgun range was hard enough after 2.0, now it seems like you won't be able to land a full burst on another player outside arm's reach unless your FR has really high stability. Has anyone else noticed this? [b]EDIT:[/b] I've also been seeing reports in this thread that auto rifles are doing no more damage after the patch than they were doing before ([b]nevermind, this issue has been addressed in the latest weekly update[/b]). And personally I've noticed the magazine size on at least one of my hand cannons has been decreased (Eyasluna, which went from 11 to 10). [b]EDIT 2:[/b] A couple of people have posted in this thread saying that the highest impact model of FR, eg. Hitchhiker, is doing significantly less damage than it used to be doing. I haven't seen any evidence of it but it's worth noting just in case. [spoiler]Ok but if Pocket Infinity is the only fusion rifle you use, you don't have much room to complain.[/spoiler] [b]EDIT 3:[/b] Alright so if you listen to the latest [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaRsjqDdeew]Crucible Radio podcast[/url], this issue is addressed a little. It's never explicitly stated, although it is hinted at, but it seems the discrepancy between what we were expecting to happen to fusion rifles based on the patch notes and what actually happened was a result of very poor wording, and a key omission. Most of us FR fanatics probably knew that after 2.0, somehow FRs ended up being more stable and accurate when fired from the hip, having almost no recoil vs the small climb you'd get when aiming. Apparently their main intention with FRs in 2.1 was to fix this behavior specifically, not address the randomness of the burst pattern introduced in 2.0. So their intention was never to make FRs more stable, as the patch notes lead us to believe. It was to make FRs more stable while aiming [u]compared to[/u] firing from the hip, while also greatly decreasing hipfire stability. Making that distinction in the first place would have avoided this confusion entirely, but hindsight's 20/20. They also neglected to mention that someone on the team altered FRs to make the burst more vertical, so the beams are more likely to be placed on an up-and-down path, rather than straying side to side. All of this combined means that FRs with anything other than the highest stability now feel like they have an insane amount of recoil, and they do. But the one positive to take away from this whole situation is that now, supposedly, that recoil is going to be much more predictable, and therefore easier to control. If you charge up your FR and yank down on the aim-stick at just the right time, you can almost completely counteract the recoil. It's annoying, and I don't like it, but it makes sense. I guess Bungie thought FRs were just a little too easy to use in skilled hands, despite the fact that most players almost never touch them. They even mentioned one tester in particular who "is a wizard with fusion rifles," and while watching him play, they realized if you're good with a FR, you're practically untouchable. While I must admit I will miss being one of those few people who realized how good they were and just how effectively you could wreck with them, I understand the change. The goal here seems to be to widen the skill gap a little, so if you still want to wreck shop with a FR, you're going to have to be really really good at it. In truth, this change may even come as a blessing in disguise. As many nerfs as they had suffered, a good FR was still a very versatile tool of destruction and could be used to great effect when in the right hands. Bungie likely anticipated that some players would drift away from shotguns after the nerfs to that weapon type, and might try picking up FRs, only to find out how good they were. It was probably a preemptive nerf to prevent them from becoming the new meta-weapon. It sucks, but I get it. I do feel as though the base stability on FRs could be bumped back up a little, but the hard truth is those of us who love them are just going to have to adapt. Sage is still convinced they are very effective weapons that the community has yet to discover, so there's no going back at this point. Start practicing the recoil counter, and if you still feel like they are broken, come back and let us know.[/quote]even without pulling down on the stick I can get some insane range. I just aim super low to begin with based on how far they are. Check out this foot shot that recoils all the way to the head if I don't adjust for recoil during the blast. Still a long range kill. http://postimg.org/image/nz27c2m7l/

Good post. Wording isn't Bungie's strong suit. I, for one, think FRs are where they need to be. In 2.0, I was able to get kills with Susanoo from insane distances. This is a mid-impact fusion. The reason it was so deadly is that the bolt spread was non-existent. With even the slightest of recoil control I could group the whole volley in my enemy's chest. Now, the recoil requires a skilled hand to tame it. That being said, fusions of most arcetypes are monsters right now. The Thesan-FR4 that the gunsmith sold last week is godly. I can get kills from 2-3 times shotgun distance easy - sometimes further with good recoil control and leading. Unflinching and hot swap lets me panic switch to special and get a kill in situations where the enemy definitely had the drop on me with their primary. High charge rate FRS can be just as deadly if you plan two shots. If you land half the first volley, it throws off the enemy's aim long enough to get a second volley off. Or, a high charge rate FR with hot swap can be used to finish an enemy off. Put a burst of pulse into them to get the shield down then switch and hit with just a couple bolts for the kill. I'm loving all my FRS right now.

Long live the Sussono

I know that feel bro. With Max stability and a little luck, you're killing outside sidearm range, though.

Bungie hates fusion rifles. It can't be a coincidence that this is the 3rd patch they get them all wrong. I kept a vast array of fusions in preparation for this update including: split shifer pro, light of the abyss, calming, frenzy, plan c, final rest, snakebite surgeon, give/take equation, and a few others... only to find out that none of them are performing near-decent at this moment of time. Not to mention this ridiculous charge rate increase idea has completely ruined fusion rifles with 34 or more base charge rate due to the enormous impact loss that is implicated along with it. Why? because these fusions now deal 38 or less damage per beam which means 5 beams aren't enough to kill one person any more, now 6 are required. Pre-patch, all fusion rifles, even the fastest were capable of killing with 5 beams. Lmao the only thing bungie accomplished by nerfing accelerated coils last patch was eliminate the use of slow charging fusion rifles... AND now with this patch, they completely eliminated the use of fast fusion rifles. In other words, they want fusion DEAD.

Petition to fire Jon Weisnewski

I actually do not trust Bungie anymore after this. I can already see it now. In the next Destiny game (Destiny 2 or whatever), I wouldn't be surprised if fusion rifles were removed completely. When loyal players ask why, Bungie will finally admit, "Our statistics show that, Fusion rifles were the most unused special weapon type next to sidearms. We really want our players to use weapons that they enjoy, and so we have decided to replace it with etc etc" ....BS!!!! They will say this while ignoring the fact that, players don't use fusion rifles since they are purposely nerfed with every update (There is no -blam!-ING way that this is being done on accident). Even when you try to play outside of the meta, these guys have the audacity to punish you for it. It is to the point where loyal fusion rifle users are making fun of their old favorites, reminiscing the days of old (early Y1), and even the times when these weapons were somewhat "decent" (HoW/Patch 2.0). I just finished testing all of my favorite fusion rifles in various PVP game modes for the second time. Honestly, Bungie had might as well given me a -blam!-ing slot machine for a weapon type. I guess my KD will just continue to shrink and shrink because, there's no way that I am picking up a sniper just to appease these morons. I want to play how I want to play, Bungie. The truth is that, I could complain all day and nothing will happen. Players have expressed their concerns about the noncompetitive nature of fusion rifles for months now, and they just keep getting the short end of the stick with every "balance" patch. For Bungie to reverse these recent changes (all of them), or to even ADMIT that fusion rifles are NOT in a good place right now, would be nothing short of a miracle.